by The Searcher 111 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Joe Grundy
    Joe Grundy

    These are just some idle thoughts about the accounting implications of all this. Presumably the WT, a 'legalistically-minded' conglomeration of corporations with large legal/accountancy departments will have considered this.

    1. Were the loans to KH congregations secured by a 'charge' on the Title Deeds or were they effectively legally unsecured?

    2. The loans would have appeared in WT balance sheets as assets.

    3. In the UK each congregation is (as I understand it) an individually registered charity. The WT loan would appear as a liability.

    4. If the loans are forgiven (would any legal charge on the deeds be removed? Must be, I would think.) the capital value of the WT would reduce (less assets), the capital value of the congregation would increase (less liabilities).

    5. I understand that WT loans were interest-free, so as far as WT accounts were concerned the repayments were 'repayments of capital' rather than 'interest income'.

    6. The 'new light' arrangements seek to replace the 'repayments of capital' with 'donations'. The one-off 'donations' from standing congregation accounts would affect local KH balance sheets by reducing their capital by the amount of that donation.

    I'm just thinking out loud here, and without knowing all the amounts involved it's difficult to asess the impact. But you can bet that WT have considered all this and the amounts involved are substantial.

    A simple example - I don't know how realistic it is : A congregation had a £30,000 WT loan, bank balance of £7,000 and the KH is worth £60,000. Capital value is £60k + £7k =£67k - £30k = £37k. After the 'new light' it's worth £60k + (£7k - £5k) = £62k. The WT has lost £30k in capital, gained £5k in 'donation income'.

    Is there some reason why WT would want to shed capital value? Of course, any funds it did give to congregations for rebuilding etc. would show in the accounts as charitable distributions of donation income received.

    I can't believe that WT would not have done all this without thinking it through and without it being to WT's advantage. This is big usiness, after all.

  • Ignoranceisbliss

    My moms Congo = 150/month. No mention of a one time Lump some payment. This is a wealthier area so I was surprised at how low it was.

  • ?me?

    I just found out that one of the halls that we share with are giving $2400 per month!! along with our congs 1100 that is way more than we were paying for our loan on our newer hall. and that does not count the smaller other language congs that share. i am pretty sure the WTS has DOUBLED its take from our halls. at least we got our hall and did not have to fork over half a million in our bank.

    they have a larger cong, but i don't see how people will "remember" to fork that amount over month after month. i will be very interested to see how this shakes out at our halls. i think the early excitement over the WTS "forgiving our loan" got everyone in a fervor and in the giving mood. what they don't really understand is that the "loan " the wts gave us was just OUR DONATIONS (AND OTHERS) THAT THEY LET US BORROW! WITH INTEREST. it is not like the WTS earns its money and they are generous enough to loan it to us, it is OUR money that we GAVE to them!

    imagine giving your neighbor a lawnmower after you bought a new one, then yours does not run. you go to your neighbor to borrow your old mower and HE CHARGES YOU FOR RENTING IT AND ACTS LIKE HE IS DOING YOU A FAVOR!

    so our total will be right around 4000-4500 from our 4 halls, an incredible amount for the class of families at our halls who all own houses in the 100k-120k range and probabaly make 50k per year at best, the other half rent and drive crappy cars.

    so the 1000 per hall average works here, i am sure it will be lower in other 2nd and 3rd world countries, but i am sure there are plenty of halls that will be pledging double what we are.

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    ?me?" - "did not have to fork over half a million in our bank". Are you serious???????? Half a million????

    Wow!! The Glorious Ones are definitely gonna have that tasty piece of cake - whether it's donated or not - and sooooooooon! You can bet on it!!! $5000 max for each cong, remember?

  • TTATTelder

    Our hall gave 2500 one time and 250 a month.

    Our hall isn't a big fish.

    They actually went backwards a bit with us since we had some money up there at the branch in their FOD program (either "funds on demand" or "funds on deposit") that we needed back to have the 5000 cushion we supposedy need now.

    There is a local congregation here that I know had over 100,000 in the bank from selling a hall years ago. I look forward to hearing about their situation in the coming weeks. We have assemblies coming up as most everyone does. I will be asking around.


  • OneEyedJoe

    I talked to someone recently who lives in a fairly affluent neighborhood, and his congregation routinely keeps $50,000 on deposit with branch and $50,000 in their operating account. They hadn't passed a resolution yet, but he expects them to go with the suggestion in the letter, which would mean they're going to be 'donating' $80-90K. And they're just one congregation of 4 or 5 that uses the hall.

    No resolution passed at my congregation yet, but I think we'll likely be throwing $20k to mother, no idea what the on-going vig...i mean donation will be.

  • suavojr

    The elders are giving 10k plus almost 200 per month

  • pronomono

    Joe Grundy,

    Taking that capital loss make sense when you look at how much they are gaining elsewhere. They're planning for the big picture. You're estimate plans for losses on individual halls. When you consider that most congregations have very little debt to the Watchtower and that with this new arrangement that almost every congregation is going to double, many triple, and others quadruple or more the donations that they were previously giving to the society, the loss on those few congregations doesn't seem so much any more. And if the congregation is following the directions, they are continuing to pay what they were before, if not more, except now there is no defined end in sight. On the books, it may look like a loss, but given a few years that one hall will become a cash cow. In the meantime, all the other halls more than make up for the deficit. Looking at some of the numbers here is astonishing to me.


    The money goes where it is needed. Where is that?! Wherever YOU are not. Don't worry, it's being watched.


  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    MY HALL - We were told tonight what the monthly pledge amounted to - less than £1 per publisher!

    Just as surprising, our substantial bank account was not touched - only the few thousand already on loan to the Org was handed over as a donation!

    We are holding well over the $5000 maximum, stated in the secret pages of the Org's letter.

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