I think the jws might be right

by holly 114 Replies latest jw friends

  • tata
    tata

    Can someone please show me a scripture that mentions the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society as necessary between God & man?

    Where are they mentioned in a Bible?

    LOL! That was good LOL.

    It supposes the very first thing everyone asks, sadly they brainwash everyone, to the point that we believe that Jehovah talk to them, and dictated everything is in the literature (like the secretary and their boss). Now I found that so funny.

    Anyway Holly, when I talk with my friend about everything you said, I react like you. Always, said that they are a good people, that they are right and etc., but when I really study, and search without any religion or thinking in any religion, everything have another view, you saw everything clear and you ask your self, how I didn?t see this before.

    Of course they are right in a lot of thing, remember who wrote the articles are people like you and me, and definitely they have a lot of question. If you have not read the book Crisis of Conscience, please read it, you see how people from the governing body have doubts too. Anyway, sure they are right about some things, but they don?t want to accept when they are wrong or when they don?t have a clue about some subject and there?s when they fail.

    So kept looking, do what the bible said: ?Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily , whether those things were so...?

    (Sorry about my english, but my friend who help me to translate, I do not know where he is.)

  • FairMind
    FairMind
    regarding blood, i wouldnt take it anyway - when you see someone die as a result of a bad transfusion you just dont want to go there.

    Holly, I am a JW but I have a problem with the idea that taking a transfusion of whole blood is a sin but taking the same blood transfused as separate fractions is not a sin. This discrepancy in reasoning was mentioned by other posters as well. Can you explain why one is OK and the other not?

    FairMind

  • Golf
    Golf

    Holly, you have every right to say as you please on this site. We need to respect your views and opinions even if we don't see eye to eye.

    Yes, many things are scriptural but why don't they scripturally apply Christian 'love?'

    I would appreciate your thoughts.


    Golf

  • upside/down
    upside/down

    As I recall the Nazi's were right on a few things, oh yeah the Communists too, and the Branch Davidians, of yeah and the.....

    Nobody (cept maybe Gumby) said they were wrong on everything.

    u/d

  • trevor
    trevor

    Barney Maldoon

    Thanks - I'm glad we agree - but who the Devil is Satan?

  • jaffacake
    jaffacake

    I can't stay long too.

    The Witness Gospel work represents less that half of 1% of all Gospel missionary work going on in the World. Other Christian groups use more varied methods, and have translated to hundreds of more languages than JWs. Early Christians did not preach by going door to door (house to house is about taking lofdgings with Christians) while traveling with the gospel message. On preaching the Gospel, what JWs preach on doorsteps is not the Gospel message preached by Paul & the early Christians. Please read Galatians, in its full context. This is consistent with Romans, Corinthians etc etc. Paul opposed even Peter for departing from the true Gospel. Please consider what the true message of the gospel was and is. The message itself wasn't about the last days, on which JWs place undue emphasis. Of people who say "the time is very near now" Jesus counselled "never follow men like that". Many many new testament verses stress salvation by faith, not works. Good works (deeds) would naturally follow from faith & love. Please consider what the message of the gospel really is from Galatians etc. When read without telling you what it means, I believe the truth almost jumps of the page at you.

    You are not an enemy for thinking JWs may be right. but if you were, How did Jesus teach us to treat our ememies.

    How many times is Armageddon mentioned in the Bible, How many times is Jehovah mentioned in the NWT Bible, the answer is non in all 5000 ancient surviving Greek Christian scriptures. But even if the NWT is right, it is between 200 and 300. Wheras Jesus or Christ is mentioned about 1,500 times in New Testament. Is the emphasis of Christ more about love or negative world events. There are many Christians preaching the true Gospel, but who don't claim inside information from God, only his Word - that is enough.

    Dave

  • jaffacake
    jaffacake

    Holly

    On blood, I believe we need to ask the why about abstaining. You've read the context so it should be quite clear. It is clearly about not eating blood, out of respect to the life lost by the animal. It was to be poured out (not so it couldn't be stored, but so it couldn't be eaten). A JW once told me its also because bllod symbolises life. Occasionally it is the only way to save life. What would Jehovah God want, to put the symbol of life above the reality of a child's life. Please imagine what Jesus would have said if faced by that dilemma. I honestly believe the JW leadership now understand the error of their doctrine - thats why its being diluted. They can't reverse it though, they won't admit mistakes unless they must. There is also the small matter of litigation...

    Dave

  • adelmaal
    adelmaal

    holly:

    I hear ya. There are things I agree with JWs on and things I disagree on.

    I too do not agree with the Trinity teaching, which is part of the reason I shy away from most churches because they seem to push it so. I think the context of the Bible really shows Jesus was created by God, he is God's son, he is mighty but not almighty, he is not God himself but he is God's perfect creation who sacrificed his perfect human life so we may receive everlasting life (I'm not sure where that everlasting life will be yet but I'm doing my research). But, I do believe the JWs have doctored the Bible and misquoted sources to support their beliefs. Why not let the Bible stand on it's own. It already proves their point IMHO. Why change Jo. 1:1. Just tells me that they are willing to do anything to ensure their teachings hold true.

    I also believe that a God of love would not torment people eternally. I cannot believe he would want people shunned either though. Nor would he destroy all but JWs. He already promised Noah he would never do that again. Things just don't jive there. They make God seem loving in one respect and yet they negate that love in others.

    I believe we must have faith in Jesus's sacrifice and we must take in knowledge of him and of God. I do not believe that faith is based on works to the extent that JWs do though. They require complete dedication to their organization, field service, 5 weekly meetings, studying of the WT, bookstudy material, KM, etc. I believe faith is based on works to the extent that our faith is demonstrated in the way we live our lives and in the way we manifest God and his word to others.

    I believe we need to make sure of all things and test what we believe constantly. I know now that this is not so with JWs. They want you to believe what they tell you and then continue learning from them as your only source for truth. The Bible should be the source for truth and they are not the only source for information on the Bible. Why is it not ok to question their interpretations? Why is it not ok to disagree with an elder when he makes no sense? As a sister you could be disfellowshipped for that. I have been in committee meetings where elders felt they had the absolute say on a matter and I was not to question it because not only were they telling me what The Society says but also I was a sister and needed to be submissive to them. They take power and control to a new level and I don't see Jesus behaving that way toward women at all in the Bible.

    I also do not want to ever receive a blood transfusion (not for religious reasons though). I believe in using condoms and I would never accept another person's blood inside me. Just personal preference. I don't know why the JWs take the scriptures regarding blood literally and yet water them down. They don't accept blood transfusions but then they will now accept blood parts. What's the difference? There are also other things the Bible says to abstain from and yet the JWs do not abstain from those things. Why not? Why blood and not fat?

    "Taking blood into the body through mouth or veins violates God?s laws." The Jehovah?s Witnesses are perhaps best known to other Americans as people who won?t allow themselves or their children to have blood transfusions. In fact, they will go so far as to allow a loved one to die rather than accept a transfusion, as they believe transfusions are a gross violation of God?s law. They support this notion with these verses: "Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood" (Gen. 9:4). "You shall not eat the blood of any creature, for the life of every creature is its blood" (Lev. 17:14). "For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from unchastity" (Acts 15:28, 29).

    There are several problems with interpreting these verses to mean that transfusions are forbidden, not the least of which is the fact that the context is referring to animal blood, not human blood. Moreover, there is a great difference between eating blood and receiving a life-giving blood transfusion. Eating blood was wrong because it profaned the life of the animal. But for a person to willingly share his blood intravenously in order to share life with someone does not profane anything. Indeed, even ultra-Orthodox Jews, who strictly observe the Old Testament kosher laws, recognize that blood transfusions are not prohibited by the command not to eat blood.

    The Witnesses must avoid other problematic passages that deal with God?s prohibition of eating blood because these passages include a prohibition against eating fat. Witnesses do not believe eating fat is wrong, and would see no problem at all with someone munching on fried pork rinds (i.e., deep-fried pieces of pig fat) or sitting down to dinner and enjoying a nice fatty cut of prime rib. But their vehement opposition to eating blood, when contrasted with their approval of eating fat, presents a serious problem for them. Why? Because Leviticus, the book they go to in order to substantiate their prohibition of eating (and receiving transfusions of) blood, contains, in the same passages, prohibitions against eating fat.

    Consider these examples: "It shall be a perpetual statute throughout your generations, in all your dwelling places, that you eat neither fat nor blood" (Lev. 3:17). "The Lord said to Moses, ?Say to the people of Israel, You shall eat no fat, of ox, or sheep, or goat. The fat of an animal that dies of itself, and the fat of one that is torn by beasts, may be put to any other use, but on no account shall you eat it. For every person who eats of the fat of an animal of which an offering by fire is made to the Lord shall be cut off from his people. Moreover you shall eat no blood whatever, whether of fowl or of animal, in any of your dwellings. Whoever eats any blood, that person shall be cut off from his people?" (Lev 7:22?27).

    These verses and others like them are difficult for Witnesses to explain, given that they lean heavily on the prohibitions against eating blood. It?s totally inconsistent to maintain that God?s "perpetual statute" against eating blood must be observed, while his "perpetual statute" (that appears in the very same context) against eating fat can be safely ignored. On this subject, as on many others, the Witnesses are highly selective and must ignore much of the Bible in order to make their beliefs seem "biblical."

    Also, the Old Testament dietary laws simply don?t apply to Christians today (cf. Col. 2:16?17, 22), and the ones given at the Council of Jerusalem passed into disuse as Jewish conversions to Christianity became uncommon toward the end of the first century and the Church became mainly Gentile. They weren?t immutable doctrines, but disciplinary rules.Have you read "Chrisis of Conscience"? I would suggest you do so prior to making any permanent decisions. There are so many decisions the Governing Body and the WTBTS have made, which have affected millions of brothers and sisters and many of those decisions were made based not on solid Bible council but on personal opinion.

    Have you read "Crisis of Conscience"? I would suggest you do so prior to making any permanent decisions. In that book you will see so many decisions the Governing Body and WTBTS have made, which affected millions of brothers and sisters personal lives, health, marriages, sex lives, etc. And yet allot of those decisions were not based on concrete Bible evidence but on personal opinion. There are so many citations from the literature, letters from the WTBTS, etc. in that book to back up every word.

    I have come to the conclusion that I cannot put my faith in a manmade organization. I refuse to allow a bunch of men make decisions for me when I am the one (along with my family and children) who will live with the consequences of those decisions. I look to the Bible and I do what you are doing. I search through various sources to find what I believe to be truth.

    I too agree you need to do what makes you feel happy, what makes you feel good with God and what makes your conscience clean and I respect that. I respect your beliefs and your opinions.

  • mkr32208
    mkr32208

    Holly- I think the entire premise of what you said should be restated! You should have said;

    I think the JW's beliefs might be right... THIS WEEK

    What your failing to take into account is that the beliefs of this week are NOT the beliefs of NEXT week!

    If you had taken a JW from 1995 (yup as little as 10 years ago) and put them in a cryrogenic sleep then woke them up today many of the beliefs that they had been WILLING TO DIE FOR would now be considered wrong, in some cases even apostate! Someone from 30 years ago would wake up thinking that the end was going to be here THIS YEAR!!! (2005-30=1975) Almost all their beliefs would now be "wrong" and this would somehow be the individuals fault! Go back to the original beliefs of the late 1800's early 1900's they are so different as to be an entirely different church!! Yet at every shift you are expected to believe that GOD is directing them, and you should be willing to DIE or let your children DIE for the "new" understanding!

    Here's a quick example the poor SOB's in Africa that DIED in the THOUSANDS to avoid getting a .25 voter registration card. Yet when the state of NY decided that when you got an automobile registration you were automaticly registered to vote somehow the light got brighter! It's ok for you brothers to DIE and your wives and sisters and daughters to be RAPED and KILLED (read the yearbook account about the 3 young "sisters" who were gangraped for 3 solid days in front of their families then set on fire with gasoline...) to make this fine christian stand! However if it looks like WE in NY might be INCONVIENINCED then we will change the belief system... IT'S SICK AND IT'S WRONG AND IF THERE IS A GOD THESE F*CKERS ARE GOING TO BURN!!!

    This organization is a joke! God does not change! Yet their beliefs shift like the tide it's beyond idiotic! It's criminaly insane! Whatever you chose to do with your life is on you but this group is nut's! If you can't see that then I say go and join! With the questions that you have you'll be more damaging on the inside anyway!

  • fairchild
    fairchild

    Hi Holly,

    (oops, something went wrong here, my post didn't copy from word)

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