I think the jws might be right

by holly 114 Replies latest jw friends

fairchild

Wow Holly, seems like you have a lot of posts to read here. I do hope you will stay around on the board.
holly

hey everyone,
well i have scanned the latest posts - sorry thats all ive done bec ive got about 15 mins and then im off to work for the day - will try and give more thoughtful replies later. i dont want you to think im avoiding questions you ask bec im not. i know jws who come on here and do avoid direct questions, and i myself wonder what they are actually doing here anyway. i presume they either arent jws or have their own doubts - i dont know. i dont want to agrivate anyone, and if thinking the way i do, does agrivate people, i will go. but i do like this board and the variety of topics and some valid points are made.
one thing i will say, is any born again christian or anyone that has anything to do with the church on here would be wasting their time trying to convince me the church is right. i long ago lost hope they were right. i went to catholic churches where they pray to saints and worship the virgin mary, and on those points alone would not affiliate myself to any group who said it was ok to do that. ive been to baptist churchs, evangelical, most of the denominations actually. many will agree jesus died to save you from sin. thats about the only agreement you can find - ask them anything else about the bible and you get a very confusing array of answers - doesnt inspire me to believe they have found god. also ask any church what they believe about hell. they believe its a place of everlasting torment - or its a place of everlasting awareness of being cut off from god (views vary). the modern thing in the church is the born again movement - that was born relatively recently in church history. certainly my parents and grandparents and their friends who went to church regularly had never heard of it. but they went to church week in and wk out, living by bible standards. so are they saved. not according to the born again movement. theres lots to tell, but amongst this confusion i decided to leave. that was realy hard - quite heart breaking really. i was told i didnt want to know the truth bec i had so many questions. that is true i did. bec what i was told, what i was seeing didnt make sense. the only answer i ever got was, have faith in jesus and let the spirit guide you. sorry, but there is this huge book called the bible and im sure it says a bit more than that.
I also will not look at a religion that does not follow the bible. i believe it is the inspired word of god. who is right is a matter of interpretation, but i will only believe those who at least use the bible as their yardstick. yes i know it has been translated and there may have been error in translation, but as i cant read hebrew or greek, i do the best i can with what i have - which is several translations and i try to get a flavour for what is being said, and i also look around at what people are doing with their faith.
i got 5 minutes so will say this is what i see so far.
the jws use the bible as their yardstick - whether they interpret right or wrongly, they use the bible.
the bible calls us to be like jesus - they follow that to the letter from what i can see.
the blood issue - big issue - it does say abstain from blood - again that could be interpretation and they may be wrong. they may however be right.
the early disciples formed congregations with overseers and those who shepherded the flock. they were told to put out the brother who committed certain sins and not even eat with him. i really dont want to wind anyone up on here - i dont know your situations - but i will say they are the only ones i found who do this and it is scriptural. what i mean is, the bible says seperate yourself from the world (ie people who commit adultery, get drunk, are rude and behave badly towards one another etc etc). that i believe is for protection - you do get like those you live around and i believe god doesnt want us to live that way. now how can you seperate yourself from the world, when half the world is in church. so bec of that and all the other things i raised about church, i dont believe they have the truth, so i look to what the jws are doing and they are following scripture.
some one has the truth - for those who believe the bible and that we are in the last days, there are people out there doing what god asked, with the right message, before the end comes. who are they?? can some one tell me who they are please?
really got to go, will get back later and also spend more time looking through your comments.
holly
LittleToe

Holly:
Hiya
the jws use the bible as their yardstick - whether they interpret right or wrongly, they use the bible.
As do many, many groups.
They really are not exclusive.
the bible calls us to be like jesus - they follow that to the letter from what i can see.
Which letter?
There is NO WAY that the judgemental JWs, following the lead of what they've been taught by the WTS is anything like the forgiving Jesus of the Bible!
You've seen example after example of their lack of love, shown on the pages of this site. Are we all wrong?
the blood issue - big issue - it does say abstain from blood - again that could be interpretation and they may be wrong. they may however be right.
And they may be wrong. Have you read about the consequences of King Saul's men eating blood?
What were the ramifications for them? Does that marry up to the ramifications of the WTS?
the early disciples formed congregations with overseers and those who shepherded the flock.
Every church does this.
...they were told to put out the brother who committed certain sins ... they are the only ones i found who do this and it is scriptural.
No they're not - they just told you that, and you believed them.
There are a number of groups that do this, including the Amish. It's interesting to see what company they keep, in this regard.
some one has the truth
The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
They told you that, too, yes?
Sorry, but I'm of the opinion that you're searching for something elusive.
You wont find it in any single religion.
If you're specifically looking for it in Christianity then you need look no futher than John 14:6, rather than various denominations.
for those who believe the bible and that we are in the last days, there are people out there doing what god asked, with the right message, before the end comes. who are they?? can some one tell me who they are please?
What's the "right message"?
They haven't got "the right message", so they fail your test, too.
At the end of the day it's your choice and your personal tests.
We can't help but show concern, but it's your life. We'll still love ya
Edited to add:
This is looking like potentially an interesting thread for you:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/86189/1.ashx
bem

When you are abused by elder's, when your children are abused by elder's (not sexually, just mentally, emotionally, etc., though the former happens too), Quoted from enuf~

((that does not mean all elders were abusive, some of the elders were very loving and sincere men))
You have been given some excellent responses, and your acceptence here is not challenged. your free to believe as you wish. But those children we loving have to battle with to get control of "our" computer, Are IMO all the reason in the world to think long and hard about believing the jws to the point of Baptizm, 'Cause when you do be prepared to have the wts drive a wedge between you of seperation if either of you become un-believers, and cross that line of 'Apostasy'.
And I agree with the above statement,,,Try having this conversation with jws at a kh.
Aposta,Dorothy.
Pole

holly,
You've been drinking from the dizzying waters of the Truth_TM.
Best wishes.
Pole
ozziepost

G'day holly,
any born again christian or anyone that has anything to do with the church on here would be wasting their time trying to convince me the church is
Why would they want to? Maybe things are different downunder but I've never been approached to "join" a church, no never.
the jws use the bible as their yardstick - whether they interpret right or wrongly, they use the bible
I must disagree. You ahve combined two statements to make one and obscured the truth. "The JWs use the Bible" - true
"The JWs use the Bible as their yardstick "- no way!. They use an interpretation that loosely quotes scripture as their yardstick but more especially uses the proclamations from Crooklyn as its yardstick.
Now that's quite different.
Now here's your mistake:
i dont believe they have the truth, so i look to what the jws are doing and they are following scripture
You're looking for "an organisation" - look for the Truth in Jesus himself. No organisation, just Jesus.
Try it.
Cheers, Ozzie
AlmostAtheist

i dont want to agrivate anyone, and if thinking the way i do, does agrivate people, i will go. but i do like this board and the variety of topics and some valid points are made.

Hi Holly,
We'll never reject you, but you do realize that at some point you'll have to reject us, don't you? I'm going to be disfellowshipped for apostasy in the very near future, at which time you will no longer be allowed to talk to me. Many folks here are officially disfellowshipped or disassociated, and you will be disfellowshipped yourself if you continue to associate with us. It's a major point -- you will be kicked out and shunned over your choice of friends.
*WE* are not going to tell you where you should worship or who your friends should be. If you find great friends at the Kingdom Hall, all the best to you. Come tell us about it.
But the JW's most certainly ARE going to tell you who you friends should and can be. It's one thing to give cautions and warnings. "Bad association spoils useful habits" is a warning, not a command. Moreover, it's vague. What makes a particular associate "bad"? According to the Watchtower, nearly everyone here is bad association for a JW. You will be faced with either leading a double-life (reading/posting here while at the same time going out in service and talking about the "bad, bad apostates" with the pioneers) or cutting us all off completely. I'm not trying to appeal to your sense of loyalty to friends -- you don't owe anyone here a thing. I'm trying to appeal to your sense of self, your you-ness that you'll have to hand over to them prior to baptism. Whether they have a particular set of doctrines correct or not, would Jesus have authorized mere men to act this way?
Good luck, Holly.
Dave
beebee

Holly I am not a Witness or ex witness so my thoughts are just food for thought based on my logic but here are a few questions you may want to think about:
1. You said you want to get closer to G-d, do you really feel ANY one religion takes you closer than another?
2. Do you feel a religion that believes its own testament takes precedent over the original bible is likely to be "right?" (this would hold true for Mormonism, Scientology and many others)
3. Do you really believe G-d created mankind to destroy most of them?
4. Do you think you would be happy in a religion where perfection [to their standards} is required for salvation and admission to paradise, when likely no one ever truly lives up to those rules perfectly?
5. Can you live within a religion and religious community where if you confess your sins (because you want to make things right), you can be thrown out for doing so instead of given guidance and the opportunity to improve?
6. Do you really believe that when you are judged by G-d, you will be judged by how many hours you clocked preaching, how well you obeyed the "rules", by how effectively you shunned those that didn't, and whether or not you had sex with your spouse in any position other than missionary? My logic says that we will be judged by our deeds - how well we treat people (all, not just a select group), how well we strived to raise our children to be productive and happy adults, how honest we are in our dealings with others, how generous we are when we see people in need, etc.. Much of my beliefs run counter to both the belief system and actual practice of JWs.
7. Are you ready to spend all of your live striving for perfection, missing the mark, and making huge sacrifices in hopes of getting to paradise, which is still just a faith-based belief and not even a reality? (this always gets me..why am I to not lead a good life while here on earth for the mere promise of something better - if this were true, why live and ever fight to survive illness?)
8. Are you prepared to shun your children if they don't become good witnesses, knowing that if you don't follow the rules on this exactly, you are jeopardizing the very paradise you supposedly joined the religion for?
I understand your desire to get closer to G-d, I just think, obviously like many others on this board, there are better ways to get there and most don't require you to be perfect (didn't Jesus die for our sins anyway?), and don't discourage free thought. As a dub, just asking questions can get you thrown out and that's after they've more or less whittled your social circle down to those that will shun you when you are tossed.
Read the thread on posted by the guy whose wife was shunned at a Memorial service, or go back and look up Tyydyy's threads and see what happened to him and his siblings at their mother's funeral. Mind you he isn't even df'd or da'd. It was a really clear view into life as a dub.
Yes, they might have some stuff right. Like others have said, all religions have some of it right, but what if the important stuff turns out to be wrong and you've given up most of your life and time?
holly

ok folks, thanks so much for all your replies, but all these issues are just too much for me to deal with. so im gonna do as i have been advised is probably best, and start a new thread on a particular subject, that is more specific. i will do that over several issues that i have one at a time.
hopefully that will make things clearer.
firstly, please dont assume i have been brainwashed by the jws. i was involved with the church for many many years.
it wasnt a jw who made me ask 'if we are all going to heaven, who are the meek who inherit the earth'. i asked that of the church and got no sensible reply.
it wasnt a jw who made me ask who these people were in the last days preaching the good news of the kingdom before the end comes. I saw that scripture myself and wondered who they were.
it wasnt a jw who made me think, 'why did god create us to live on earth forever, then decide we would go to live in heaven'
it wasnt a jw who made me ask 'would a JUST god punish us forever in everlasting torment for 70 years of sin'
it wasnt a jw who told me it was ok to get rid of the brother who was sinning - i read that for myself in the bible. having spent years in church where they get rid of no one, i wondered why is wasnt happening.
it wasnt a jw who told me not to mix with the world. i read that in the bible too. i dont particularly like the world, or the attitude of many in it. i also know that you get like those you mix with. i never swear yet i once worked somewhere where everyone did. i was shocked when i first worked there but within a few days, i was swearing too, and it didnt seem wrong anymore. the world is like that from what i can see. and i didnt live 41 years on the planet only to find out from a JW. i knew this already, and many things already, bec I told ME.
if i share jw views, its bec i already did share these views, before i even knew what they believed.
i think we live in a mad crazy world of selfishness. humans are capable of such beauty, yet like no other species, capable of such horror.
i believe the bible - man cannot direct his own step. i read that for myself, not from a jw. i firmly believe we need god to sort this mess of a world out.
anyway, sermon over!! sorry!! on and on !
holly
Satans little helper

I'm sorry but you are prime meat for the witnesses, you will fit right in.
Why are you seeking an organised religion? Develop your relationship with god personally and fill that hole in your life without resorting to the teachings of men which invariably lead to innacuracy and oppression designed to protect the organisational power structure.

I think the jws might be right

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