To each his/her own.
Notice, however, that some people are certain that Mormons "might be right".
Also, some people are certain that Seventh Day Adventists "might be right".
Some people are absolutely certain that Catholics "might be right".
Amazingly, some people are actually still convinced that Branch Davidians "might be right" (and that David Koresh was the Lamb of God).
And a lot of otherwise intelligent people are convinced beyond all doubt that Scientologists "might be right".
In all cases (including JWs) the milieu of belief is a contained environment of circular reasoning. As long as you only consider their milieu as significant or factual, and reject everything they tell you to reject, it may continue to appear to be cohesive. This applies to all the religion examples I've listed above, and many, many more.
If you just want to believe in something then flip a coin and go with any one of them. You will quickly find that they all "might be right". (Then again, you might not, since the JW "logic" may have already poisoned the well. Then again, if Mormons or Catholics or Scientologists had got to you first, they would have poisoned the JW well! ;)
If you are sincere in your desire to learn, then in addition to the links I've already provided above, you might want to take an even deeper look at the basis for religions and a classic religious/anti-religious argument: The Rejection of Pascal's Wager. (BTW, even you you don't Reject Pascal's wager, then applying it as Pascal did will lead you to conclude that Catholics or Baptists are a better relgious choice, since, if they are right, you avoid eternal damnation in hellfire. And avoiding the worst case scenario is what Pascal's Wager is all about.)
Happy learning!
~Quotes
I think the jws might be right
by holly 114 Replies latest jw friends
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Quotes
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Dawn
give us an example of understand script. in context
John 3:1-6 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, ?Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.? In reply Jesus declared, ?I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. [a] ? ?How can a man be born when he is old?? Nicodemus asked. ?Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!? Jesus answered, ?I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
Point 1: You MUST be born again to enter the kingdom of God
Revelation 21:1-3 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, ?Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God
Point 2: The kingdom of God will be be all encompasing - God will dwell with men.
Point 3: defd - if you plan to dwell in this kingdom, are YOU born again? If not, why?
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Doubtfully Yours
Well,
My personal opinion is that JWs are right in some things and wrong in others. Typical of just about any religious organization that I know.
I don't dwell on it much. Religion in general is just a business, and I treat it as such, accepting some stuff and refusing some stuff.
DY
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Big Dog
Dawn, thanks a bunch, I am still stuck at my desk and didn't have an opportunity to give Defd a decent example of reading scriptures. I'm not born again but my point was not to promote any agenda, it was more along the lines that many religions and the JW's are great examples use scriptures here and there to "prove" that which is an article of faith.
I look at the Catholic/Orthodox faiths, they say, hey we can trace our linage all the way back to the first congregations, where have all you protestants been and it goes on and on.
Holly, as you have been advised, read, study, pray, talk to lots of people (as I have mentioned in other threads I had a one on one with a Jesuit Priest and while I didn't convert to Catholocism because of it I found it highly educational and sent me off in new directions of thought and info seeking).
Defd, I was raised a JW from birth, I know all the arguements, and now I know all the other arguements and things are not as clear as I was taught to believe. Then as so many have mentioned there are so many non-doctrinal issues, the so called cost of being in a particular religion that have to be looked at.
I really would like nothing better than a burning bush to tell me what the deal is, if in fact there is a deal.
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cab1000
Holly,
Your reasoning on the Trinity sounds very good. I belive you have sound reasons for not beliving in the Trinity. Now continue to reason the same way with EVERY doctrine that the society presents to you. Maybe start with proving to yourself that the 607 BCE date is correct. Maybe prove to yourself that birthdays are wrong, and that you will die a horrible death just for celebrating them. Fully explain to yourself why it is very wrong to celebrate christmas. Be sure to include everything. Be sure to note all the proper scriptures that support the whole disfellowshiping process, so that when the time comes, and your family is divided, you know exactly why, and support it 100%.
Dont read this sarcasticaly, I mean NO disrespect. I am just trying to help.
~cab
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ColdRedRain
it does say in the new testament 'abstain from blood'
Read the rest of the scripture.
You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood
It's a clear reference to blood being used as nutrition, not as a method of lifesaving technology. God's other so called people, the ancient Hebrews, had exceptions in the rule regarding dietary ussages of things that weren't Kosher, which the rules against blood were derived from. When a person was in a life or death situation, Kosher allowed a person to disobey it in order to save his life. . And just remember, these were the people that Jesus decried for being too legalistic. The WT is being more legalistic than even the ancient Hebrews. How sad is that?
- why did he say his father was greater than him
- why does the bible say worship only God
-why didnt moses or any of the old testament people worship Jesus
-why did jesus not know the day or the hour
-why in revelation does it depict one throne in heaven, with all those round it worshiping Jehovah
Why does the bible say "There is only one Lord" and why are Jehovah and Jesus called "Lord"? If Jehovah and Jesus were both lords, then there would be more than one Lord, just making Jehovah himself a liar. Also, the bible says there's only one true god and anybody following false gods are apostate. One problem, Jesus is a god, in the biblical sense Are you apostate for loving Jesus?
i have read large chunks of it. every time i read it i find the jws quite scriptural. please dont all jump on me. i really dont want to leave this site. just wanted to say this, thats all
What do you have as a touchstone for a determination of what's "Scriptual" when it comes to bible interpretation? Ask yourself that question first. Unless you're fluent in Greek and Hebrew, you wouldn't know what's "Scriptual" or not. Your best hope is to get a bible made by the best Greek and Hebrew scholars.
Unfortunatley, the translators of the WT were proven in a court of law to be limited in the Greek language and iliterate in Hebrew.
The NIV has the best ancient Greek and Hebrew scholars in the world on it's translation board. Those other bible translations also have some good Greek and Hebrew translators too.
As for the WT being learned in ancient Hebrew history, I don't mean to sound offensive, but I find that claim to be rather laughable. If they read any ancient Hebrew history, they would know that there were archeological signs of people being crucified around 100 BC to 100 AD in Christian era Isreal. Yet they routinely ignore that. They also use the bible (A book without dates) as the authority to when Babylon fell, which they claim is 607 BC, when anybody using tried and tested historical methods have determined that 607 was too late of a date for Babylon to fall. It's been determined with carbon dating too.
If you need any questions, doubts or statements, be glad to post them on the board. We'll gladly discuss it.
-ColdRedRain, of the History Geek class.
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upside/down
Try having a discussion like this at the Kingdom Hall... see how far you get.
u/d (of the
good luckwish you well class) -
undercover
Try having a discussion like this at the Kingdom Hall... see how far you get.
That one sentence says a lot.
Holly, if you decide to go back to your studies, try to get your JW friends to have these same type discussions that you have been having here and see how far it goes. When you see that their minds are shut to outside ideas or thoughts I think you'll see the lack of freedom that they have to think for themselves or question things.
You have the right to choose your religion but will the religion that you choose give you the right to decide for yourself what is right and true?
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Sunspot
Maybe prove to yourself that birthdays are wrong, and that you will die a horrible death just for celebrating them. Fully explain to yourself why it is very wrong to celebrate christmas. Be sure to include everything. Be sure to note all the proper scriptures that support the whole disfellowshiping process, so that when the time comes, and your family is divided, you know exactly why, and support it 100%.
Cab,
I completely agree with what you said here. I might also add Christ's resurrection being ignored as well.
Holly,
I can understand where you're coming from. It IS a tough decision to make (both going in and coming out) I still have a problem with accepting the Trinity belief and have just decided that I will let it ride and someday I will see or read something that will cement it in my heart, one way or another. This has been my experience since I left the WTS. God knows my heart, my feelings and my questions and he will see to it that I will get what I need.
As Cab said, are you prepared to uphold all the offbeat rules of the GB when you get baptized?
Are you prepared to disown and shun members of your own family for these rules?
Will you be able to go door-to-door and try to convince others why their religion is not approved by God? (And tell your relatives and friends---they have to hear the "message" too or you are accountable (they call it bloodguilty), according to the WTS)
Can you explain to your kids, friends and family why you won't be joining them at Christmas or their birthdays? Not even a card.
Are you prepared to go to the schools (if it applies) and tell the faculty why your kids won't be allowed to be at Pep Rallies, Proms, holiday events, sports, etc.
This is only a start of the entire list of "don'ts" as set down by the WTS.
And one more thought (I'm not picking on you---I like you a lot!) If you already have decided to "do your own thing" about the blood business, you will be going into this "religion" knowing that you won't be in complete agreement with the teachings---and at baptism---you will be asked to uphold their rules. In front of God.
Wishing you the best...
hugs,
Annie
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trevor
Holly
Abstain from reading the bible and you will prosper, good health to you!