I think the jws might be right

by holly 114 Replies latest jw friends

  • lonelysheep
    lonelysheep

    Holly,

    I hope you'll stick around as I've enjoyed your posts greatly! You will be warned not to, though. But you're loved here!

    Like you, I've studied w/jw's, and I grew up attending various other churches...catholic, methodist, a.m.e., brethryn, and menonite. I got interested in jw's because of the bible. Later, once I used my own thinking in the more in depth bible studies, I realized that jw's didn't have it all right, either. I can't in my heart worship god when not everything I'm told to go by is correct. Especially a religion that claims to be of jehovah...which made me even question that claim. There is no proof. New light..does this mean a group's bible interpretation? If so, then this applies to all christians' interpretations, not just jw's....another point-saying who is a true christian or not is not up to men in brooklyn or any kh. It's up to god so why try to step up and judge others?

    At least other religions TRY to practice love. GOD IS LOVE. Basic to me. JW TRY hard to practice hate, foster hate, roll in it and stink of it. They rub their hands in glee over the 'impending' Armageddon where billions will be..yippeeeeee..killed by God! Bye bye to evil men, women, children, babies, etc. Because that, despite their attempt at their current attempt at political correctness, is what they really believe. All Non-JW's are going to be murdered by God.

    Your post is right on point, Jez. This is how the control can factor in and take over one's thinking and life. So much time is preached and spent on doing what we're told will make god happy instead of just thinking things through, looking at yourself from the outside, and acting out of love rather than what you're programmed (yes, it is what is is) to do. Hate of this, hate of that...next thing you know, you're isolated from anyone non-jw by your own choice.

    Crisis of Conscience is an excellent read.

    May peace be in your heart completely no matter what path you choose, Holly.

  • anglise
    anglise

    Of course they are "right" (maybe plausible would be a better word).

    All religions have to have a little bit of "right" or no one would listen to them.

    Doesnt mean that all they utter is good, true or morally acceptable.

    Keep your eyes wide open with all of this Holly.

    Anglise

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    holly...Regarding the blood issue, if you have not read Ray Franz' In Search of Christian Freedom, I would recommend you to read his chapter on blood on the following website:

    http://www.commentarypress.com/eng-search-ch9-01.html

    It is one of the best written essays I have read on the subject, and shows very clearly how the Watchtower interpretation "goes beyond what has been written" and follows the example set by the Pharisee rabbis of treating "man's rules" as the equivalent of "God's law". I also might suggest that you read Paul's detailed discussion of "food sacrificed to idols" in 1 Corinthians, especially whether he shows any awareness of a commandment against consuming meat sacrificed to idols (which, not having been bled according to the Jewish manner, would have also contained blood). The answer may surprise you.

    On the subject of the Trinity, it is important to distinguish between the issue of Jesus' Deity and the issue of whether God is a Trinity. The latter represents a theological construct seeking to harmonize various differing statements in scripture, the former is one of the concepts in the NT (and elsewhere in early Christianity) that was harmonized into the Trinity doctrine. The NT embraces different christological conceptions, but a number of these do presume the Deity of Christ (cf. John 1:1, 20:28; Colossians 1:19, 2:9: "For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him...For in Christ all the fullness of Deity lives in bodily form"). Most striking is the practice in the NT of applying to Jesus Christ OT scriptures referring originally to Yahweh. Note especially how Revelation 1:8, 17-18, 2:8, 4:8, 11:17, 21:6, 22:12-16, etc. apply Isaiah 44:6; 45:11-13, 51:13, 15-16, originally referring to Yahweh, to both Jesus Christ and the Lord God Almighty, or how Isaiah 45:23-24 is applied to Jesus in Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10-11, or most strikingly how Romans 10:9-13 applies Joel 3:5 (referring to the "name of Yahweh") to Christ. The New World Translation, in many of these instances, inserts "Jehovah" into the text of the NT to obscure the fact that Jesus is being identified with the Lord God of the OT.

    If the Son is described as having "the fullness of God" or the "fullness of Deity", and if he is described as "the perfect copy of [God]'s essence" (Hebrews 1:3), or simply as "God" (John 1:1, 20:28), and if the NT regularly applied OT verses describing the Almighty God to Jesus, then there is probably more to the teaching than the Watchtower is willing to admit. There is no sort of developed doctrine in the NT of how both the Son and the Father could be God and how the Holy Spirit fits into the overall picture, only early Christians who had no problem with confessing Jesus as Lord and as God. Working out the precise theological details was left to later church fathers, who developed the Trinity as a plausible rationalization and harmonization of different christological concepts in scripture. One interesting idea from the second-century apologists (who lie roughly mid-way between the primitive NT conceptions and the Nicene Trinity) is that the Son was God because he was begotten by the Father, and thus had the same divine nature as the Father (as Colossians and Hebrews imply), and was not separated from the Father as if he were a second God but rather both were united as one God -- but at the same time internally distinct as Father and Son. This harmonizes statements in the NT about the Father and the Son being united and about them being distinct from each other and even different in role (with the Son being subordinate to the Father). The Watchtower commonly cites scriptures emphasizing a distinction between the Father and Son as proof against the Trinity, but this involves a misunderstanding of what the Trinity claims (i.e. it does not claim that the Father is the Son).

    The Watchtower's beliefs about the resurrection, the soul, and hell also do not correspond to actual Jewish and Christian first-century beliefs as attested in the NT and other writings. For instance, compare 2 Corinthians 5:1-10, 12:2; Philippians 1:21-24; 2 Peter 1:13-14 with the Watchtower teaching that nothing like a soul leaves the body at death, or Paul's discussion of the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15 which assumes continuity of the individual between life, death, and resurrection (unlike the Watchtower teaching of the resurrection, which denies such continuity).

    The most fundamental doctrines of the Witnesses are those that even more clearly cannot be shown to be based in the Bible. Where in the Bible does it say that God chose the Watchtower and Bible and Tract Society in 1919 to be his "organization"? Where in the Bible does it say that the New Covenant effectively closed in 1935 except for "rare exceptions" and is no longer offered to new Christians? Where in the Bible is the group numered as 144,000 declared to be the only group to have a heavenly destiny and corresponds to the number of those under the New Covenant? Where in the Bible is it declared that Christians belong to two distinct "classes" and that Jesus is the mediator for only one of these classes and that the other must depend on the other for salvation?

    These are some questions worth investigating if you feel that the Witnesses only believe what's in the Bible. Bear in mind too that there are other Christian groups who do not believe in the Trinity or hell and so forth, but the teachings I highlighted in the last paragraph are definitely those peculiar to JWs. These are also the most critical teachings, because they are teachings that would make you dependent on the "organization" rather than Christ for salvation, and give the "organization" the authority to control almost every aspect of your life.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Holly:
    I'm enjoying your posts, here, and hope you get a chance to meet up with some of us this year

    I'm with Gumby, in promouncing that everything the JW's believe is a crock (albeit for different reasons).
    Even the stuff that seems fairly consistent, is warped away from Christ, and so I reject theeir slant on that, too.

  • PopeOfEruke
    PopeOfEruke

    Its a simple FACT: There is GOOD and BAD in all religions. Choose one that best suits your needs.......

    Pope

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Pope:I agree with you. I would add the caveat, however, that some are so saturated with bad consequences that they need giving a wide berth...

  • PopeOfEruke
    PopeOfEruke

    Little Toe,

    Agreed! My personal opinion is you should give them ALL a wide berth, because religion is really nothing but control - the religious leaders control the members, and the members are people who feel a need to be controlled.

    But it's so hard to make a decision for someone else - the individual has to decide for himself or herself. And what about joining the Moonies, or people who believed in Jim Jones and drank the poison? Can we legislate against joining whacky religions? Or is it a case of "they paid for their ticket, they knew what they were getting into, I say, Let them crash....."?

    Dunno....as Brian said to the crowd in Life of Brian "You don't need to follow anyone..you have to work it out for yourselves..."...

    I think this website and others like can provide people with alternative views on in the case JW's and their practises and beliefs, but only the individual can decide which side they are on.

    Pope

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Amen - couldn't agree more!

    However I believe religion CAN be used as a tool. It's just a shame that it doesn't come with the same level of safety instructions as a chainsaw...

  • prophecor
    prophecor

    Hi Holly. It's good that you still have questions regarding your faith, Jehovah's Witnesses or otherwise. If we were given the same lattitude as the Beoreans were given regarding checking all the angles of Jehovah's Organisation, however, I believe many would come to different conclusions about the faith that most of us have shared. We were always encouraged to check out the scriptures as they were presented to us from their perspective, we, however were never encouraged to seek out the ghost that live in the closets of the organization, and there are several. I guess you look at as similar to technology, how far we have advanced as a society, things are often re-vamped, new and improved, updated, and we are constantly growing in our ability to better ourselves thru information and technology. I don't, in some ways imagine the society to a degree the same way, the whole issue about the new light. I however am still leery regarding thier claims as to their being the only ones who have God's backing. That is such a presumptuous position to hold that their voice is the only voice heard by God. Yet and still, I believe a sizeable degree of the things the Organisation spouts off are true too. I still believe in the bible, I still believe that paradise on earth is a promise that God is going to make good on, in the future. I don't believe in the fiery torment in Hell doctrine that is Christendom. I don't believe they have time line correct on anything, however. I believe as bad as things are, they're going to have to be a lot worse before Jehovah finds it necessary to step in. I actually don't have a problem with Jehovah at all, it's OZ. How they have handled things over the years, disfellowshipments leading to suicide, broken homes, broken dreams. Issues of child molestation, the Mexico-Malawi issue, I find it a little difficult believing the things that have taken place in the name of Jehovah's Organisation, have God's backing.

  • lv4fer
    lv4fer

    The whole Other sheep and 144,000 is a bull. When Jesus said I have other sheep that are not of this fold he was saying that there would be Gentiles that would come in not Jewish (not of this fold). The hope for all Christians is a heavenly one. In Hebrews chapter 11 it even states that Abraham was looking forward to his heavenly reward. Jesus Christ is our Lord and God and Savior. IF you want to do some real investigating you should get yourself an Interlinear Bible you will see how they have messed up the Bible by putting their scriptural interpretation into that translation. THey are wrong about the Blood issue. THey change thier interpretaitons all the time and unfortunately people die because of their misinterpretations. Did you know they use to forbid vacinations because they said they were wrong. How many were harmed or died because of this. They also use to forbid transplants saying it was like eating someone else. Now it's a conscious matter. Oops we now have NEW LIGHT. sorry you let your child die but he will be ressurcted. That is another thing they don't believe in a resurrection they believe in a recreation of someone. I'm hard pressed to see what they believe that is accurate except they try to be love their neighbor as themself.... oh yeah they can't do that either Love other people who are witnesses and try to convert everyone else because they are WORLDLY.

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