Believe what you wish.
I think the Grateful Dead might be right.
I think the jws might be right
by holly 114 Replies latest jw friends
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Double Edge
Holly...
I've never been a JW, but I've been to numerous Christian churches, including the Mormans. I bring them up because I have several Morman friends and we've spent hours discussing religion. So when you try to point out that JWs are the ONLY ones to have certain beliefs, I really have to say you haven't done your research.
it wasnt a jw who made me ask 'if we are all going to heaven, who are the meek who inherit the earth'. i asked that of the church and got no sensible reply.
Some Christian churches believe that at the Second Coming, the "saints" (righteous ones) will return to inherit the earth. In other words, the earth itself will become a new "heaven".
it wasnt a jw who made me ask who these people were in the last days preaching the good news of the kingdom before the end comes. I saw that scripture myself and wondered who they were.
Mormans have been doing it door-to-door longer than the JWs. Trinity Broadcasting is huge and preaches the good news throughout the world, as well as other Christian broadcasters.
it wasnt a jw who made me think, 'why did god create us to live on earth forever, then decide we would go to live in heaven'
**see first reply**
it wasnt a jw who made me ask 'would a JUST god punish us forever in everlasting torment for 70 years of sin'
No. Not all Christian churches believe in hellfire and damnation. Besides, that's a mistranslation....the use of the words "eternal" and "everlasting" weren't talking about 'time' ... it was referring to GOD, as in God's punishment (He being the "eternal" and "everlasting" ONE.)
it wasnt a jw who told me it was ok to get rid of the brother who was sinning - i read that for myself in the bible. having spent years in church where they get rid of no one, i wondered why is wasnt happening.
Many churches have excommunication and disfellowshipping policies....you just weren't in one of the.
it wasnt a jw who told me not to mix with the world. i read that in the bible too.
The bible says many things, including instructing parents to kill their unrulely children. If you're going to follow the bible so closely, then follow the example of the Redeemer, Jesus Christ......he TOTALLY mixed with the "world"...after all, it was the "world" who needed him (see His statements regarding the sick needing a doctor). He ate, drank, and lived with the "worldly". His are the words and works that give meaning to the real TRUTH.... He said to love your God and your fellow man, and in doing so rest all of the laws and the prophets. There are many people in this world who live their lives thusly, yet know nothing of the Bible....yet they unknowingly keep that commandment.... i.e. they have CHARITY (unconditional love)..... and according to Jesus, all will be well with them.
my 2 cents
D.E.
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bebu
Holly,
If you would like a rock-solid Biblical case against the WTS, please consider the Walsh trials held in Scotland in 1954. The court records give jaw-dropping, and utterly anti-biblical admissions by the leaders of the WTS. The following is part of the record, and the person answering (A) the attorney (Q) is Hayden Covington, the head WT lawyer of the time (and who argued many cases here in the states).
http://watchtower.observer.org/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040312/DOCTRINE/10527012
An excerpt:
Q. You have studied the literature of your movement?
A. Yes, but not all of it. I have not studied the seven volumes of "Studies in the Scriptures," and I have not studied this matter that you are mentioning now of 1874. I am not at all familiar with that.
Q. Assume from me that it was promulgated as authoritative by the Society that Christ's Second Coming was in 1874?
A. Taking that assumption as a fact, it is a hypothetical statement.
Q. That was the publication of false prophesy?
A. That was the publication of a false prophesy, it was a false statement or an erronious statement in fulfilment of a prophesy that was false or erronious.
Q. And that had to be believed by the whole of Jehovah's Witnesses?
A. Yes, because you must understand we must have unity, we cannot have disunity with a lot of people going every way, an army is supposed to march in step.
Q. You do not believe in the worldly armies, do you?
A. We believe in the Christian Army of God.
Q. Do you believe in the worldly armies?
A. We have nothing to say about that, we do not preach against them, we merely say that the worldly armies, like the nations of the world today, are a part of Satan's Organization, and we do not take part in them, but we do not say the nations cannot have their armies, we do not preach against warfare, we are merely claiming our exemption from it, that is all.
Q. Back to the point now. A false prophesy was promulgated?
A. I agree that.
Q. It had to be accepted by Jehovah's Witnesses?
A. That is correct.
Q. If a member of Jehovah's Witnesses took the view himself that that prophesy was wrong and said so he would be disfellowshipped?
A. Yes, if he said so and kept persisting in creating trouble, because if the whole organisation believes one thing, even though it be erronious and somebody else starts on his own trying to put his ideas across then there is disunity and trouble, there cannot be harmony, there cannot be marching. When a change comes it should come from the proper source, the head of the organisation, the governing body, not from the bottom upwards, because everybody would have ideas, and the organisation would disintegrate and go in a thousand different directions. Our purpose is to have unity.
Q. Unity at all costs?
A. Unity at all costs, because we believe and are sure that Jehovah God is using our organisation, the governing body of our organisation to direct it, even though mistakes are made from time to time.
Q. And unity based upon an enforced acceptance of false prophecy?
A. That is conceded to be true.
Q. And the person who expressed his view, as you say, that it was wrong, and was disfellowshipped, would be in breach of the Covenant, if he was baptized?
A. That is correct.
Q. And as you said yesterday expressly, would be worthy of death?
A. I think - - -
Q. Would you say yes or no?
A. I will answer yes, unhesitatingly.
Q. Do you call that religion?
A. It certainly is.
Q. Do you call it Christianity?
A. I certainly do.Holly, if that doesn't reveal how highly the WTS thinks of themselves--that is, they require JWs to follow them even if they are false prophets!--how do you square this with Jesus' exhortations that false prophets will appear at the end... and that we must have NOTHING to do with them?? He even said that their deception would deceive even the elect if it were possible! So: bottom line... GO SLOW. Examine everything more carefully than you have, for both sides.
bebu
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LittleToe
A single question, from me, remains:
Given that the JWs aren't unique and there are other organisations holding true to the touchstones that you've offered, how is it possible that any of them can be the one, true religion?
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ozziepost
LT:
The answer's simple: because they say so!
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Dansk
Am I glad I'm a Buddhist! Everything is so clear.
Ian
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gumby
it does say in the new testament 'abstain from blood'. if it said abstain from alcohol, i wouldnt put it in my veins.
I think this pretty well sums up WHY Holly has decided to return to the witnesses. Her statement proves WHY there will always be SOME who subscribe to cults. Need I say more? Give it up folks....you'll never win against a mind such as this.
Happy trails Holly
Gumby
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Narkissos
Agreed with Gumby.
Fortunately none of us can offer a non-WT yet WT-like answer to a WT-like question. What we do is reject the question as stupid, because we really feel it is.
Whoever accepts the question has to accept the answer and its consequences.
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hillary_step
Holly,
bec the bible says in the last days there will be a witness to all the inhabited earth and then the end will come. so are there individuals out there, not involved in any organisation doing this ?
Have you heard of Preterism, or even Partial Preterism? What evidence do you have that this scripture applies outside of the C1st?
Imho you are a falling into a dangerous trap that relies on your own ignorance to spring the door shut.
Of course, it is your life and you must live it as you see fit, but you must understand that making such important decisions based on fragmented information and suspect interpretation will only imprison you in a cell of your own making. Before making up your mind, you need to research *much* more carefully the options.
For an idea of what preterism is, and how it may affect your view of 'end-times' Biblical prophecy, read James Russell's 'Parousia'. I speak from an agnostic point of view, nevertheless if you are going to trust the Bible, you should look at it from *every* angle before you decide that one is correct.
Here is a link to get you started : http://www.preterism.us/
Best regards - HS
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