Studying with JWs - Confused, Conflicted ...

by RebelliousSpirit 278 Replies latest members private

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  RebelliousSpirit

  One question...(hope this never happens) What if you're in a wreck, you're unconscious and one of your children needs blood...and the only one there is your husband...then what?

  Good question! I have told my sister-in-law (not JW) that if I ever became a JW and the blood issue arose with my kids, to fight me on it tooth and nail. Sad, I know. But I just cannot reconcile the blood thing with regards to my children. I could not let my child die if there was a possibility a transfusion would save him. So I would expect my SIL to fight my husband on it if I were not able to. Problem is, as we know, there isn't always time.

  Thanks for bringing this possibility to my attention. I have much to think about in this department.
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  The WTS will never be able to take me away from my worldly friends and family

  That's a great attitude. Others have started out with that attitude, but eventually changed their mind and cut off "worldly" association. (I would be one of those that did this. )

  It's not really meant to be a warning to you that they will do it, it's meant to be a "red flag". Why would they need to even try to control who you associate with? If they have the "truth", then why is it considered so fragile that simply conversing with a person that no longer believes it (so-called "apostates", like the people on this board) could shatter it? Reading material such as is on this board is considered "spiritual poison" by the Watchtower and they warn their people in the strongest language not to ever read it at all. Not even a whiff.

  Why?

  Have you ever been to one of those high-pressue sales deals? They promise you a free TV or radio or something in exchange for being able to try to sell you a time-share or a vacation package. They don't give you a chance to think about it, you have to answer NOW. If you walk out the door, the deal is off. You have to act NOW.

  Why? If it's such a great deal, won't it seem better if I think about it? If I talk it over with friends, won't they see how great it is and want ti get in on it too? No, they know they have to control you, scare you. You have to act NOW.

  In that same sense, why does the Watchtower feel the need to control you? Even if they fail in their attempts to do so, why would you want to give them the chance?

  You have probably already come to this conclusion, but at the least, make sure you don't get baptized. Your options are open as long as you don't go under the water. Once you're in, you're in.

  Dave
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  RebelliousSpirit

  There is an ultimate goal in the Art of Persuasion. Get the person to persuade themselves. When that person feels they have made their own decision, they are more likely to stick with it, back it up, even die for it. *sigh* When a publishing company has been in the business of persuasion for as many years as the WT, they have shaped & molded their approach of all good for the good of all.

  You are so right on that one. I have been told countless times that they want me to come to my own conclusions. And I know that is why they want that.

  My fear door is closed, of that much I can assure you.

  Thank you for your insight!!
• 

  RebelliousSpirit

  Are you guys even a little pissed off that your hubby's cousin may have been (was?) killed by this religion?

  Honestly? No, it doesn't piss me off. I am very sad that he died and possibly for something he believed so strongly in, yes. Howver, I do know that the ME said he was 99% certain that a transfusion wouldn't have saved him. He was extremely messed up from the accident, they couldn't even put him back together for an open casket. I guess I take some solace in knowing that the ME said what he did. The thing is, hubby's cousin's father is NOT a JW, only his mother is. It has left a great rift in their family (the loss of their son, the potential of it being the JW's "fault"). It's really sad.

  This young man stood strong in his faith, even if it was possibly misguided faith. I am proud of him, to be honest. I honestly don't know that I could do the same.
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  Ratboy

  There ya go. If they believe all the information you have is the info that they themselves provide you WILL think you are making your own decisions, but you're doing so on BIASED info. You really should read up on the "Best Of" forum here. It is very insightful.
• 

  qwerty

  Sorry RebelliousSpirit,

  I haven't read all the replies- all I can say is - they will see your love of God - apart from the WTS and start asking Questions about the Organsation! That's if you decide the non JW path.

  Qwerty
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  PurpleV

  Quick arbitrary question - why did you cross those 2 phrases out?

  A bit of sarcasm--many of us use the strikethrough feature to highlight what is really going on behind a JW phrase. "Preaching the good news of the kingdom" is not the Watchtower Society's goal. Selling literature is. They are a multi-BILLION dollar book publishing company, but continually ask for more, more more! from its members, their unpaid sales force.

  6 million JWs donate their time to distribute WTS publications door to door. This activity is said to be ?voluntary? but the teaching is that JWs who don?t do it will be executed by God at Armageddon. Despite the Society often implying that the main source of funding is ?contribution boxes? in Kingdom Halls, most comes from the efforts of six million JWs who trudge the streets and knock on doors to offer WTS literature.

  Furthermore, these same JWs are obliged to buy personal copies of all magazines and books the WTS puts out. The WTS has millions of captive buyers expected to purchase the publications without even looking at the contents! And one book per household is not enough; Mom, Dad and the kids all need their own, personal copy.

  The WTS produces its literature at minimal cost. Materials are bought in bulk and every step in production is by volunteers. Oh, and of course, it's all tax free, because they claim to be a religion.
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  RebelliousSpirit

  It's not really meant to be a warning to you that they will do it, it's meant to be a "red flag". Why would they need to even try to control who you associate with? If they have the "truth", then why is it considered so fragile that simply conversing with a person that no longer believes it (so-called "apostates", like the people on this board) could shatter it? Reading material such as is on this board is considered "spiritual poison" by the Watchtower and they warn their people in the strongest language not to ever read it at all. Not even a whiff.

  OMG - that has been my stance on the WTS for 7 years! I have asked those very same questions countless times. Just last week I again asked the question, "Do they have such little faith in their followers, and in what they've taught them, that they have to control so much of their lives??" I went on to give an example of how in high school I had friends who used drugs, though I never used drugs myself. I was given the same response I'm always given when I bring this up - most people are weak and shouldn't be put into positions such as associating with people who could wrongly influence them.

  I don't buy that entirely. I am sure that if anyone besides my husband knew I was here talking to you, they would flip out because I could be led astray or wrongly influenced. I take pride in thinking for myself. While I will consider each and every thing said here - I don't need to be "led astray" - possibly to the JW chagrin I have a mind of my own, thank you very much.

  In that same sense, why does the Watchtower feel the need to control you? Even if they fail in their attempts to do so, why would you want to give them the chance?

  You have probably already come to this conclusion, but at the least, make sure you don't get baptized. Your options are open as long as you don't go under the water. Once you're in, you're in.

  Honestly, I don't want to give them that chance. One of my favorite quotes (particularly the first 2 and last 2 lines):

  No one commands me.
  No man. No god. No elder. No prince.
  What is the claim of age for ones who are immortal?
  What is a claim of power for ones who defy death?
  Call your damnable hunt.
  We shall see whom I drag screaming to hell with me.

  A quote from Vampire: The Masquerade and it is so ironic to me that it includes the word "elder".

  I told my husband last night ... "I wonder how long they'll put up with me not being baptized, because I don't think it's gonna go that way, just to keep our options open". lol! I am awful. ::sigh::
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  This young man stood strong in his faith, even if it was possibly misguided faith. I am proud of him, to be honest. I honestly don't know that I could do the same.

  Witnesses do have a loyalty to their faith. And it is admirable in its way. We tend to respect people that stand firm rather than bend or break when it becomes uncomfortable.

  The apostle Paul said of some religious people, "they have a zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge." Sincerity and zeal and loyalty are all admirable qualities, but they have to be directed at the right things. The 9/11 hijackers were sincere, zealous, and loyal, but few humans view their actions as a good advertisement for Islam. (Granted, they don't represent Islam, but that's not my point.)

  Nor is it my point to compare your relative to the hijackers. Only to show that those admirable qualities can turn on you if you don't direct them properly.

  I have a question for you: If you and your hubby both know the blood doctrine is a joke, and that's so central to being a Witness, why are you still interested in becoming one?

  This is an extremely interesting discussion, thank you for starting it!

  Dave
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  Ratboy

  I would echo my comments on reading "Combating Cult Mind Control." It goes more in-depth to identifying controlling methods than most of us here can.