You have a PM, fairchild.
Studying with JWs - Confused, Conflicted ...
by RebelliousSpirit 278 Replies latest members private
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RebelliousSpirit
IF WE DO REACH THAT POINT AND ACCEPT WHAT THEY "DEMAND", IT IS BECAUSE WE CAN NOT SEE ANY LOGIC AND WE START TO BLAME OURSELVES AS NOT BEING INTELLIGENT ENOUGH OR WE TIRE OF THE STRUGGLE AND GIVE IN.
I know what you mean. I am not one to "give in" to anything. But this is hard, really hard.
YOU FEEL LIKE CRYING?? YOU'VE ALMOST GOT ME CRYING. THIS BRINGS UP A LOT OF SORROWFUL MEMORIES OF MINE.
I'm sorry. I've been a mess lately. The other night I sat at my desk and just burst into tears. For the first time since I started studying 5+ months ago, I pulled out my rosary. I then took the picture I have of my Grandma (who passed away 2 years ago), held my rosary and the picture, and just cried hysterically. I begged my Grandma to help me, and if she can't I begged for Jehovah to help me know the right thing. I took my rosary to bed and cried myself to sleep. It was a bad night.
It's not getting any better either. And it's upsetting my husband on top of everything, which I do not want to do.
I am at a loss ...
::hugs::
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RebelliousSpirit
I honestly feel for you RS. It is not an easy road to take when you are honest with yourself. For what it's worth, I wish I had questioned things the way you do as I grew up. I would have had a better life ultimately.
Thanks for all of your input to this point, RB, I appreciate it. Every little bit helps.
::hugs::
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RebelliousSpirit
(((Jez)))
I am reading your story continually with interest. You amaze me. Only strong, intelligent people question the power that the WBTS has over people.
Thank you so much for the compliment, it means a lot. ::hugs::
I ask myself over and over again lately, why did i not question? Why did I just accept? I hate that part of myself now.
However, don't sell yourself short. It happens to the best of us. I was in an abusive relationship for 4 years before I met my husband. It took me so long to get myself out of that mess. And I hated myself for "allowing" it to happen. I would think things like -- My mother taught me better than to take this crap from anyone!! And, I was a strong, dignified woman - how could I let such a thing happen to me?? It took every shred of my dignity by the time all was said and done. And it took me years to rebuild, to take my life back. So I understand how you feel, and I empathize.
That experience in my life is probably what has me terrified of this whole JW thing. I pride myself on not having regrets in my life - because I have learned something valuable from every experience I have had, good and bad (and at one point, there was a whole lot of very bad) - and I've come out the other side a better and stronger person. But I am very done with taking it up the @ss as it were, I haven't allowed such a thing since the day I walked out on my abuser. And, I have learned never to put myself in such a position again - where my dignity is stolen from me, where I sacrifice my self respect and my integrity, where I allow someone else to manipulate and control my every step, where I fear never being good enough, where I am punished for doing absolutely nothing wrong ......
Yes, my experience with abuse definitely perpetuates the overwhelming sense of dread I get when I think of what could happen if I am baptized as a JW. I'm sure you understand.
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RebelliousSpirit
Hi CO,
Although he holds his conductor in high esteem and has met a number of kind witnesses, he has decided against becoming a member because his questions did not receive adequate answers and were then by-passed - this after studying for a year and a half. He has now embarked on a course of study outside of Witness publications. He noticed the [ ] (denoting additions) and the ........ (denoting omissions) and started to observe the persuasive style of the publications with their leading questions. Once he noticed the 'style' of the writing as opposed to the subject matter, he started to have severe doubts about the integrity of the information presented.
This is how I feel as well. Though admittedly it is so hard when I am surrounded by witnesses. Did you know that every time they can't answer one of my questions sufficiently they resort to saying, "I really thought you knew this to be the truth, what's wrong all of the sudden??" I have heard that from 3 different people so far, my husband included. ::sigh:: I proceed to tell them that if they would just sufficiently answer my questions in a way that would prove what I am asking them to prove, the discussion would be over. Hasn't happened yet though.
I've noticed too that they ask questions that will insight some measure of guilt. Intentionally? I don't know - I do know they are trained to ask such questions. I was asked tonight by my MIL when I confronted her with my feelings, "After all you've learned, you wouldn't honestly turn your back on Jehovah, would you?" I told her I will never turn my back on Jehovah - but that is a separate issue from my inability to accept the organization. Of course to her it's not. ::sigh::
Thanks for your input.
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calamityjane
I don't know what chapter you are on, but I had a very rough time on chapter 5 (which I just finished). It was about freedom, and a part about 'bad associations'. I have a few very dear friends who would give you the shirt off their backs, but because they are not JW's, they are supposed to be bad associations. They don't smoke, don't drink, don't swear and are just really nice people. Then it makes me think.. are they really bad associations?
Fairchild made this statement, which is a very good one.
When my husband and I were still JW's, we had a JW couple living next door to us. The husband was an elder in the congreation and they had a daughter who was the same age as our daughter, so we thought this was a great arrangement. It ended up to be a horrible nightmare. Their daughter started so many rumours (which were malicious and slanderous) about our family that I almost had a nervous breakdown. I finally talked to the elders about it, and basically the family just got a slap on the wrist. I guess because he held the position of elder he was treated differently than us.
Now, on the opposite side of us we had a "wordly" family living on the other side that were the nicest people, they had wonderful kids, they would do anything for you.
So this became a conflict for me as I would ask my husband how could Jehovah destroy this wonderful "wordly" family at armageddon and allow these backstabbing JW's into paradise.
That began my road out of the JW Cult.
cj
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Billygoat
I don't know what chapter you are on, but I had a very rough time on chapter 5 (which I just finished). It was about freedom, and a part about 'bad associations'. I have a few very dear friends who would give you the shirt off their backs, but because they are not JW's, they are supposed to be bad associations. They don't smoke, don't drink, don't swear and are just really nice people. Then it makes me think.. are they really bad associations?
Fairchild made this statement, which is a very good one.When my husband and I were still JW's, we had a JW couple living next door to us. The husband was an elder in the congreation and they had a daughter who was the same age as our daughter, so we thought this was a great arrangement. It ended up to be a horrible nightmare. Their daughter started so many rumours (which were malicious and slanderous) about our family that I almost had a nervous breakdown. I finally talked to the elders about it, and basically the family just got a slap on the wrist. I guess because he held the position of elder he was treated differently than us.
Now, on the opposite side of us we had a "wordly" family living on the other side that were the nicest people, they had wonderful kids, they would do anything for you.
So this became a conflict for me as I would ask my husband how could Jehovah destroy this wonderful "wordly" family at armageddon and allow these backstabbing JW's into paradise.
That began my road out of the JW Cult.
Calamity,
This is exactly what made me think twice about this organization. They SAID they were God's true people. But their actions didn't prove it. They SAID we would know that by their fruits. But I didn't see those fruits in the Kingdom Hall walls. I saw more love in action with my worldly friends than I did with the brothers and sisters. Now that I am far enough removed from the situation, I can see the destruction this religion brings into people's lives. I don't think the typical rank and file member sees it, as they are just as much trapped as I was back then. Basically, I couldn't see the forest from the trees. I think that's what's making it so difficult for Rebellious. She's IN it right now. Her in-laws are all she has. It's going to take a TREMENDOUS amount of support and strength for her to fight getting sucked up into it.
Just my observations,
Andi
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ChristianObserver
Hello RS :o)
You said: every time they can't answer one of my questions sufficiently they resort to saying, "I really thought you knew this to be the truth, what's wrong all of the sudden??"
My friend experienced something similar and began to feel that he was wanting in some way. His desire at the outset had been to have a Bible study. He found the witnesses to be very friendly but temperatures cooled when he was still asking questions and was not progressing towards baptism.
You said: I proceed to tell them that if they would just sufficiently answer my questions in a way that would prove what I am asking them to prove, the discussion would be over. Hasn't happened yet though.
My friend explained that if he was to go out and give bible studies, he needed to be certain of what he was teaching and he wanted to feel confident that he would be able to answer any questions that were put to him. He felt unable to promote the views of a group about which he had niggling doubts.
You said: I've noticed too that they ask questions that will insight some measure of guilt. Intentionally? I don't know - I do know they are trained to ask such questions. I was asked tonight by my MIL when I confronted her with my feelings, "After all you've learned, you wouldn't honestly turn your back on Jehovah, would you?" I told her I will never turn my back on Jehovah - but that is a separate issue from my inability to accept the organization. Of course to her it's not.
And of course, your final statement is spot on and would be true of the majority of witnesses for they believe that they have the F&DS guiding them and that God is using them as his earthly channel of communication.
In an earlier post you had mentioned the tragedy which had befallen the family and your phrase 'misguided faith' of the young man leapt out at me.
A huge problem for my friend was attempting to reconcile the group's ::apparent:: dictum 'abstain from blood' with the seemingly arbitrary 'escape clauses' published variously in the literature. He could not accept that a loving God would wish life saving medical treatment in the form of blood therapy to be denied and he felt unable to refuse such treatment for his children. He could not, therefore, teach the doctrine, which he would be required to do. Having read the articles I referred to in my earlier post, he became convinced that the witnesses were wrong in the minority view which they hold - that they were 'misguided' in their teaching and that he could not put faith in their leadership even though the majority of witnesses he met were good people.
Wishing you well in your enquiries and feeling for you in your difficult predicament. -
RebelliousSpirit
I think that's what's making it so difficult for Rebellious. She's IN it right now. Her in-laws are all she has. It's going to take a TREMENDOUS amount of support and strength for her to fight getting sucked up into it.
I guess technically I am in it, up to my ears. And what pisses me off is that it shouldn't even be the case that I should have to worry about being guilted or manipulated into something I'm unsure of because "these people" have the "power" to f*ck up my life! I used to say to my husband, "So they keep you in with the threat of taking away everything you hold dear? How lovely!" What happened to serving Jehovah of your own desire and free will? Doesn't the WTS stomp on the concept of "free will" by their use of
loving guidance,uhpunishment,umm "scare tactics" (I'm getting the hang of this - ha!)?Argh!
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calamityjane
I'm getting the hang of this - ha!)?
So do I take this as your "seeing the light"?
cj