Come right out and ask her. I read somewhere that if you guess what someone is thinking that 99% of the time you are wrong!
I did ask her what was on her mind via email, she never responded - and she always responds to my emails.
Studying with JWs - Confused, Conflicted ...
by RebelliousSpirit 278 Replies latest members private
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RebelliousSpirit
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codeblue
Welcome Rebel
So sorry it has taken me so long to "welcome" you.....I was in chat last night, we had a ton there and I was trying to keep up with all the converstations!
I have read most of your pages of your thread, and I have to agree with quite a few responses: If your gut reaction is not to continue or something doesn't "seem" right..........listen to your "gut".
I was raised as a JW. Only exposed to those belief systems.
I can tell you more, but only in a pm, as both my husband and I are fading. Meaning IF my family and life long friends find out that I no longer attend meetings (I still am dedicated to GOD, just not to a man-made religion/organization) will have NOTHING to do with me. I have already lost communication with one sister so far. This religion demands obedience to them instead of the Bible message of showing "true, unconditional love to your family and neighbor".
... You mentioned you have studied psychology. Excellent. Go buy or to the libray and read Steve Hassan's: "Combatting Cult Mind Control". Another good read is: "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse", that book identifies what IS spiritual abuse. You would think the 2 authors were JW's, but they weren't and the JW religion is never mentioned. (yes I feel spiritually abused and will tell you why in a pm if you wish to contact me).
I sincerely hope all goes well for you and your family...
hugs,
CodeBlue
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RebelliousSpirit
He's right. I was raised in the organization, believe me, he's right. You do not want your children to be trapped; eventually getting baptized (maybe as a pre-teen, as I did) and then if say, they get a divorce from someone who treats them like dirt and marry someone who treats them like gold, they get df'd and lose their entire family (that's what happened to me because I grew up a JW)
I know. My JW sister-in-law is trapped in a nasty marriage to a JW right now. He treats her like dirt, she's virtually emprisoned. AND he has been unfaithful, privately reproved for it, and she chose to stay with him. Funny thing is ... her husband recently decided to DA himself and join the military - but who knows if that will really happen. It's a mess, and I do not envy her at all.
Don't ignore the feeling that you should protect your kids from these people. You should.
You must.
::sigh:: I do instinctually feel that way - but why is it that SO many other people become JW's and don't think twice about that? Yet here I am, confused and conflicted and being told that I just "don't want to give up my freedom" or "submit to God's authority".
I talked to my husband about the blood thing last night. I told him I didn't like submitting to a man's interpretation of the Bible on something Jehovah did not specifically say himself, like he specified about adultery, fornication, spiritism, etc. Hubby said that one is supposed to have faith that the organization is directed and approved by Jehovah, thus they are correct. I said it doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that the JW's are directed by God, ie: it doesn't say the WTS is the faithful and discreet slave. He said it does say so if you have faith in the interpretation. And I said - that's just it! I am supposed to have faith in MAN, as opposed to GOD - and I can't do that. He looked sad, said he didn't know, and walked away - I can tell it makes him think too.
My conductor said to me at one point that until I come to accept the faithful and discreet slave, I will never progress in my study. Guess she's right. Heh.
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Balsam
Rebel, your study conductor is childish and immature. If you wish to continue studying you need to find someone like your MIL, who sounds marvelous. But honey I got to tell you your only seeing the tip if the iceburg. I wish it was different but it isn't. I was a very devoted follower for 29 years, and saw lots of the same problems you see in your own catholic family. Only JW try to hide it.
Your fortunate to have such loving in-laws.
Balsam
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jgnat
Remember what I said about the hot/cold manipulation? It has started. The conductor withdraws, you follow after, apologizing. What do you have to apologize for, exactly? She is behaving badly. Most JW's don't even realize when they do this, they are so used to avoiding so many types of people.
You have finally hit on the core doctrine of the WTBTS:
Hubby said that one is supposed to have faith that the organization is directed and approved by Jehovah, thus they are correct. I said it doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that the JW's are directed by God, ie: it doesn't say the WTS is the faithful and discreet slave. He said it does say so if you have faith in the interpretation.
This is the one WT belief that cannot be questioned and never changes. Think long and hard about this core doctrine. You started your study because you wanted to get closer to God. Will this core doctrine lead you closer or farther away to God?
Your crankiness is a natural reaction to the subtly bad treatment you are receiving. You are being offended and slighted in dozens of small ways, and when you confront them on it, they excuse away the bad behavior. It is natural for you to feel misabused and angry when the full reality of the JW machine comes to light. I've been there! Unfortunately, in a mixed marriage, it means hubby's perspective, you have suddenly grown horns and a spiky tail. I would suggest you show and abundance tolerance and love for HIM. Show increasingly less tolerance for the Hall. I hope he displays enough character to accept you and love you regardless. It might not be a hot idea to mention your association with the INTERNET. If you have been keeping up on the weekly studies, you know how we are painted.
Codeblue's reading suggestions are excellent, by the way.
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AlanF
Rebel said:
: My conductor said to me at one point that until I come to accept the faithful and discreet slave, I will never progress in my study. Guess she's right.
That's the main point I tried to make!
All JWs know that this is the Fundamental Doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses. Every other doctrine could change, and they'd still be JWs -- but not this one.
This doctrine is THE thing that makes them a destructive cult.
AlanF
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AlmostAtheist
but why is it that SO many other people become JW's and don't think twice about that?
Considering that they spend a billion hours a year in preaching and trying to make disciples, and only 100,000 people a year get baptized, that means they had to spend 10,000 on each new convert. If each studies for 6 months, that would take only 50-100 hours. So the other people on which the remaining 9,900 hours were spent said "no thanks". And this doesn't figure in the 30,000 people a year that leave the organization. Doesn't sound like "SO many" people, does it? Think how many people buy things from telemarketers, click on attachments sent via email and get viruses, and continue to believe that bats are blind. The fact that some people are fooled into making a mistake doesn't in anyway make it less of a mistake.
Hubby said that one is supposed to have faith that the organization is directed and approved by Jehovah, thus they are correct. I said it doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that the JW's are directed by God, ie: it doesn't say the WTS is the faithful and discreet slave. He said it does say so if you have faith in the interpretation. And I said - that's just it! I am supposed to have faith in MAN, as opposed to GOD - and I can't do that. He looked sad, said he didn't know, and walked away - I can tell it makes him think too.
This is the single most destructive teaching of the Watchtower. "Follow us, we speak for God." So anything they say, even if it doesn't make sense and is only supported by their own interpretation of the Bible, is accepted as fact. When they have to admit they were wrong about something, they claim that "new light" has been shed on the scriptures. Trouble is, they flip-flop. They say A, then correct themselves to B, then go back to A. (Example: Romans 13:1 and the identity of the "superior authorities") Could increasing light cause this? No, but simple misinterpretation by men could.
Dave
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RebelliousSpirit
So do people just blindly accept that the WTS is the F&DS, or do they have a way to prove it? When it came up in the knowledge book, my conductor told me to research it (on my own). So I did - and I am an extremely intelligent person, yet I couldn't make heads or tails of it!! The whole thing started with this scripture:
(Matthew 24:45-47) 45
"Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings.
I was told to "figure out" who the "master" is, who the "domestics" are, who the "slave" is, and what the "belongings" are. And then I was supposed to come to the conclusion that the "domestics" and "slave" are one in the same - which makes NO sense to me even still! Then I went around in circles chasing my tail as it were - is the F&DS the annointed? the old christian congregation? the WTS? I read conflicting things on the WT CD and in the Proclaimers book and couldn't make heads or tails of exactly WHO the F&DS are supposed to be, let alone who the hell the "domestics" are. Even after discussing the matter with my conductor, I don't "get it".
The sad thing is ... the implication is that I am supposed to "just get it", and when I don't my conductor looks at me like I'm crazy. That is when she told me I'd never progress if I didn't accept the F&DS thing.
Bottom line ... I DON'T FREAKING GET IT!
"Do you hear the words that are coming out of my mouth???"
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RebelliousSpirit
All JWs know that this is the Fundamental Doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses. Every other doctrine could change, and they'd still be JWs -- but not this one.
This doctrine is THE thing that makes them a destructive cult.
And this is the doctrine I have THE biggest problem with, next to the blood thing. Awhile ago I thought to myself, "Well, if I were to become a JW, I guess I would just have to take their word for it". At the time I thought - what's the big deal? I want to worship God more fully, being a JW would acheive that, what would it hurt even if this one thing makes no sense to me? Now I'm afraid I might be wrong.
I can happily go to meetings, worship Jehovah all day along ... but this F&DS thing has bothered me from word go and I cant shake it. And obviously that's going to be a huge problem since everything they teach comes from this "F&DS" whose word we have to take on everything.
::sigh::
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Big Tex
this F&DS thing has bothered me from word go and I cant shake it
That's probably because you have a problem with blind obedience. Good for you. You will save yourself a lot of heartache.