Was this right? Cedars threatens, what say you?

by Hadriel 177 Replies latest members adult

• 

  tornapart

  Most people want a legitimate copy of a book. If you can't get it at a reasonable price or can't get it at all then I can understand why people download it for free.

  I badly wanted the book to read but couldn't have the physical version in my house because of JW family. as well as it costing a small fortune on Amazon I tried to get a kindle version... there was nothing! In the end I found an online version hosted by a legit company. So that's what I did, I read a little every day for 3 days. When a legit kindle version comes out then I will be very happy to pay for it.

  Meantime what else is there to do?
• 

  rip van winkle

  Ruby456,

  Your flow has been dammed. Stop.

  You're wrong.

  Let Hadriel answer or avoid/ sidestep my questions.
• 

  Anders Andersen

  Please raise hands, all (including Hadriel ;-) ) who have (read) and benefitted from a bootlegged copy of

  • Shepherds of the Flock
  • Branch manual
  • Branch communication manual
  • Gazillion letters to BOE
  • Public talk outlines
  • CoC
  • ...

  Is it illegal? Yes.

  Does the copyright holder have the right to determine how copies should be distributed, and fight bootlegs? Yes.

  Does the benefit of the copyright holders outweigh the benefits of those who wake up by reading this stuff?

  IMHO....no.

  But if people making money off these illegal copies, that I don't like.

  I am with those that plead for making this more like open source.

  • Run an official website where the authorized copy can be downloaded (think bittorrent to reduce traffic?).
  • Add a donate button, maybe some ads.
  • Have volunteers maintain the translations and updates, peer reviewed if needed. There is a nice group of very motivated people who want to fight WTBS but don't know how. They will help out voluntary.
  • Use small batch or single piece printing services to provide hard copies at cost price or a small margin for those who want it. Most people who need this book don't care much about a hard copy, they have been trained by the Borg to use their tablets :-D

  Bigger projects than this have been done this way.

  
  

  I would have never bought this book, since before reading it I considered it apostate and forbidden. But now I'm out, I'm willing to donate as I recognise the value.

  
  

  Oh and really I don't care much about the fight over the legal issues between Cedars and CoC copyright holder....I can see the point in the arguments both sides have, and I don't know enough about the situation or the people involved to have a judgment about it/them.

  @Hadriel, good luck making sense of the different viewpoints. And I hope whatever course is taken, it will be for the benefit of those that are still sleeping...
• 

  konceptual99

  Spot on Anders
• 

  Hadriel

  I would have never bought this book, since before reading it I considered it apostate and forbidden. But now I'm out, I'm willing to donate as I recognize the value

  Very fair point which I acknowledge.

  Can't respond to all the comments here directly but here are a few comments.

  1. Did Ray want his book in the public domain? No, he did not. This is fact for those questioning what he wanted. He absolutely did not believe or want it to be a free PDF download. Primarily for the reasons I mentioned earlier, the integrity of book.

  2. It's all about the money and I stand to profit. I'm being paid zero, zilch and will never take a penny. It has nothing to do with that.

  Lastly to keep the book in print it takes time and money to maintain and propagate it fully. I appreciate that some don't see this as a requirement but you'll never get it out in the many more languages that are needed without this revenue.

  For you English speaking folks you're set and if that was the only language maybe it wouldn't be needed but that's not the case. Quality translations are needed in well over 150 languages. Where's that money going to come from?

  Not all but some that have done or offered to translate have not done such a quality job in some cases hence it has to be paid for.

  Who's going to pay for all those same translations to be read for audio book use?

  These are just some of the things no one is thinking about that absolutely have hard costs attached to them.

  Getting the book out in these many other languages is the goal here. It's going to require money. There's no way around that.
• 

  Anders Andersen

  All of us have the same goal: get the book out to as many people as possible.
  

  It's just that there are different ways to achieve that. There is not just one way that works, and then all other ways are evil. That's just JW thinking :-p

  And the person holding the rights ultimately gets to decide which way it's gonna be, whether we like it or not.
• 

  cappytan

  Getting the book out in these many other languages is the goal here. It's going to require money. There's no way around that.

  Good idea, yet there's no guarantee that the money will be used for that. If the copyright owner wants to claim altruistic intentions and say she will use the money for translation, then there needs to be some accountability and transparency.

  If those motives are truly unselfish, she would set up a trust and transfer copyright to that trust to further the cause.

  Yes, she has every legal right to publish for personal gain. However, if she wants to claim that the reasons for profiting are to get it translated, she needs to somehow show that she is genuine in that desire and is working towards that.

  Otherwise they're just empty words and promises with no real way to hold her to those stated intentions.
• 

  Hadriel

  @Anders you know ur my boy we've had plenty of discussions and I like where your mind is at as in general you are fair and honest. No one could ask for more. So I'll ask you directly how do we get the book properly translated without funds?

  It has to come from somewhere I don't see how it can work otherwise. That I think is the part that is missed here.

  Some of the translations done aren't very good and are mistranslated. Professional translators are needed as well as audio books for the blind.

  I don't see how this happens without money. Well unless someone says here you go here's x thousands of dollars. Even then I'm not sure that would be the right way to go.
• 

  Hadriel

  By the way I know many feel that it should just be free because so many need it.

  Why isn't medicine free? Don't we all need it from time to time?

  Just because something is in need doesn't automatically make it free. The reality is things cost. This is no different to get the book out in the plethora of other langs that are needed it will take money to do this.

  No one will EVER retire off of selling this publication. Just needs to make enough to cover these costs and others.
• 

  jookbeard

  the integrity of the book can surely remain and be kept in tact if the free PDF's are offered, I simply dont believe or accept that and Hadriel would you care to furnish us with some proof that these were Rays wishes?To keep or maintain a book in print especially this book either through third party printing or through Amazon themselves surely requires very little time and money, it is a click away and has been shown numerous times, we are living in 2016, not the mid 1980's.