by Stepford Wife 121 Replies latest jw friends
Welcome.
He will be removed as an elder, surprising he hasn't been already, under the predicament of how can he direct the flock when he cannot even direct his household efficiently.
Many like you and I are trapped in due to not wanting to lose family and friends. You are brave, though; most of us just continue to fake it and it is quite taxing mentally at times. Congratulations on your courage.
DY
My advice.
Sit down with your husband and explain what you have learned:
Hadriel said: Have him watch the testimony of governing body member Geoffrey Jackson from the Royal Commission. There's nothing apostate about it. He's under oath in court. Why wouldn't he be honest? Yet he says some highly questionable things that your husband will find difficult to reconcile
If he blows it off make sure he understands that
the Royal Australian Commission on child abuse put the JW's under oath just as they did the Catholic Church and found out that according to the Australian Branch's own records....... there were 1009 cases of pedophilia and 1700 plus victims from 1950 to the present time and not a single case was reported to the authorities! In fact because of their policy and the two witness rule many of these cases were dismissed by the Elders. Is it right to apply the two witness rule to raped children? Is that what Jesus intended?
Along with the GB member there were Branch officials all questioned under oath. The Elders had no training in this sort of investigation they even had rape victims facing their rapist! It sickened you and you will not attend meetings nor go out in service until the policy is changed and the Pedophile issue is cleaned up.
Now if you want me to tell your Elder buddies about how stumbled I am over this issue invite them over however what you should do is simply cancel any meeting with them and tell them we are working on some serious personal issues.
In the meantime consider what Jesus said about children:
Matthew 19:14 "But Jesus said, "Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
Do you think a sexually abused child is not permanently hindered?
That he is going to want to see his rapist at the Kingdom Hall?
@StepfordWife,
Welcome. Hang in there!
You can't be DFed for not reporting hours.
You can't be DFed for whatever reason if there is only 1 witness (e.g. your husband) against you, and you an refuse to answer any question.
Please keep in mind that none of these people have any auhority , and they have no power over you. They cannot make you talk if you don't want to.
You can flatout refuses to talk to them or meet with them if you wish. You don't have to play the game by their rules.
You don't have to play their game at all.
These people have just as much authority over you as any stranger passing by in traffic: none.
In my case, my wife told the elders I am now an atheist. I politely refused their request to meet. There is nothing they can do until at least 1 other witness to my current beliefs comes forward.
Some friends and family sort of shun me anyway; unfortunately that's how they're wired to think and act.
Anyway, my main point is: you are in charge of you life. You don't owe anyone an explanation (except maybe your husband), and nobody holds any authority over you.
Best wishes!
Stepford Wife,
Do you care whether your husband is removed as an elder? If you do, and if you two can agree on it, he can spin the same stories about why you aren't attending the meetings 'right now.' He can tell them you have some personal health/emotional issues un-related to the Dark Tower, the BOE or the congregation that you are working on.
That will likely keep them from removing him for a while. My experience in that dreaded cult is not recent, but I can't imagine they will act with such haste to have him step aside. Of course that depends on the mood and 'loving kindness' of the BOE (excuse me, but I have to throw up again).
Others with more recent knowledge are better suited to respond to this. I'm just more than a bit dubious that they will move with certainty and speed in getting rid of him - unless of course you or he blows your cover.
I am going to answer a bit different than most.
You want to avoid being DF'ed and you want to help your daughter to be free of meetings and the pressure to advance in that den of lies.
I don't have children, and I was the fading husband. Quite a bit different. But if I had a child, I would do everything in my power to get him/her outta there, including being DF'ed.
Here's my thoughts: They can't DF you unless they have a charge against you. But these guys are slick and want to come up with a charge. So meeting with them might cause you to say something that they twist and agree with each other is good enough to DF you. It's rare, but can happen.
If I were in your position, I would say you stumbled upon the ARC on youtube and it was Geoffrey Jackson talking, so you didn't see how watching that could be wrong, you thought it would probably strengthen you to see how he answered worldly courts. I would tell the husband that the ARC extremely disturbed you, and that current policy offers no real protection to your daughter from creeps in the congregation/organization that they wouldn't tell you about. I would say that it's clear that your daughter doesn't want to go to the hall (no matter her reasons, they can't DF you for what she says/thinks- prep her for their drills, let her know not to say that Mom said anything). And the only way you saw to eventually safeguard your child is to stop going to meetings and hopefully, allow your daughter to miss meetings. (Even if hubby is dragging her there, your reasoning doesn't have to be totally sound- just needs to contain enough truth to sell it.)
Beyond that, tell him what the elders want to hear- Governing Body is good, has the truth. "But I am still not ready to go back to the hall, and if my daughter doesn't want to go, I feel much safer for her. You are my husband and I have told you what I need to say. I see no reason to repeat it to two other elders. I hope you respect me and will tell them that I am fine and don't wish to meet with them." (He probably will feel much pressure to tell them your thoughts.)
See how your husband deals with that- if he is removed or not, what he says to them and to you. Don't decide whether to leave him or not until you get a good idea how that's going to work out. If you don't get your daughter out of meetings with you, then consider leaving him.
Anyway, that's probably what I would do.
Sour Grapes: The elders wanted to make a sheparding call on me and I told them that I do not want one and to please respect my privacy. So far so good. It is a shame that one can not just stop going to the meetings without fear of not being able to talk to witness family members. It is a truly sad religion run by men whose every word is viewed as coming from the mouth of God.
freemindfade: You don't have to tell them anything. Just tell them you are happy and fine, and nothing is wrong. Do not play into their games.
I agree with the comments shown above.
The org has no power over you. I know you don't want your family to shun you; that's completely understandable. However, if it does come to that, remember, they are the ones that are wrong. Their doctrines and theology are so fragile that they can't stand analysis and questioning, and JWs start whining whenever anybody challenges them.
Be strong. If you are shunned, remember that time is ever more shining a light of exposure on JWdom. The evidence against it is mounting. My JW family members are not outright shunning me, but they view me as weak and/or petty and/or evil. They treat me in a cautious, suspicious, guarded manner. I believe that as time goes on, people like you and me and many others on this site will more and more be shown to be right.
As for now, I agree with many others. I would not meet with them. If they ask to do a shepherding call on you, you could just answer in a nonchalant way "Oh, no thanks" and then walk away. If they ask through your husband, tell him to tell them that you appreciate the thought, but no thanks. You owe them nothing. JWdom owes you. You don't have to provide excuses or answers.
I am thinking about this. If they even dare mention anything about d/f or anything I will sue their asses off and bring it to the Supreme Court if necessary. I'm not joking. I'm at that point. I will raise hell.
Now you're thinking right.
I was an elder for a long time, and unless policy has changed, I can't think of any action they could take agaist you for simply being inactive and/or not coming to meetings.
As to removing your husband... well, that seems so unfair to me. If they think about removing him, then they need to consider removing Jah from his position because many of his children (angels) turned bad and so did his "wife" (the nation of Israel).
When I was serving as an elder, I would only consider removing a man whose wife was inactive if it could be shown that the man was at fault. The thing that's so unfair in the case of you and your husband is that the fault is the org's, not your husband's!!! The notion that he might be removed as an elder because of the org's faults is so unjust, but as somebody said, if that were to happen, maybe it would help him to wake up.
Hi SW. I am really glad you lurked and finally posted. I am really sorry about your situation. There has been so many good pieces of advice on this thread, please if you have time read it over several times. I completely understand how sick and stressed this is making you - it's probably all you think about almost every second of the day! Believe me, and the others here, it will get better! There will be a day when the dust has settled one way or another and you will be able to get on with your life (and your daughter's).
When I faded my wife did not rat me out or turn me in. She knew I was doubting and researching but she never told anyone anything. During my fade I had to meet with the elders once. I lied through my teeth telling them I believed everything but that I was really stressed and having a hard time raising my kids and caring for my family responsibilities. I was doing my best and would continue to do so. After that first meeting if they asked to meet with me again I just repeated how I was stressed and doing my best and that I would definitely let them know when if I needed to talk with them for encouragement.
Meanwhile I reduced my duties at the KH, stepped aside and showed up less and less over the period of a couple years. I took the word slow fade to an extreme but it worked and I maintained my marriage, no DF, and all my kids are free.
I guess I just wanted you to know that we are here and understand. While we can't help you deal with the day to day issues you face (minute to minute probably) we can be a place for you to vent and heal.
If you meet with them lie through your teeth and don't give them any idea that you are doubting/apostate. Just tell them how stressed you are and how difficult this system is. I was careful to never ever tell anyone what I thought about the organization and the beliefs, not even my kids, I helped them escape without revealing all my opinions.
I really do wish you the best of luck.
Hi - I have t yet read through this entire thread - just a message here of support.
Given all your circumstances - what harm could come from meeting, keeping it very low key and just being friendly.
If they probe regarding your current thoughts on whether 'this is the truth' - I'd suggest something along the lines of 'being a little discouraged by a few things, but just wanting to quietly settle your heart' ....thanking them for their care and patience.
My observation ( which could be wrong) is that this is a global pattern, husbands or wives of ''in good standing' and respected spouses/families are not showing up anymore....I'd suggest there will be a growing trend to avoid the scandal of big blow ups in congregations.
Im thinking how lostwun has been left well alone, even though her current beliefs have been gossiped about and are known in her JW community.....
I'd suggest that unless you plan on being an active militant - just keep cool, say little and maintain a warm and pleasant, non threatening status.
If you feel strong enough, I'd let them visit - but take control by being very welcoming, very friendly ( and why not) hospitable and gentle -if you can gather up your ful stature as a thoughtful, kind and secure human being - then do it. Easier said than done when all sorts of pressures around you - I have no witness family, so it's different, apologies if my take doesn't fit your situation .....(((((( hugs )))))
'Edit' - just read the bit where if they threaten d/f you'll raise hell and sue - LOL! Great you don't feel intimidated :-)
...and a real "spiritual head of the family" would resign as an elder if his family wasn't "spiritually strong."
That is just my opinion. I never needed the title, and actually offered to resign/be removed when my JW wife went to college and missed some meetings. But that was back in the interim when college wasn't so bad.
They really might remove him, they can say that he is not "making" you do the right thing. So if he really isn't putting undo pressure on you and not reporting all to the elder body, give him some slack.
I would probably tell him, "Is your eldership so precious to them that they think you should drag me to the hall?" "Will you be okay if they take that away?" "Why not (if there's a neg. response)?"
