dealing with religion after leaving the witnesses

by joker 29 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Coded Logic
    Coded Logic
    TrueNoir -

    You asked a large number of questions. I'll try to answer them in order:

    1.) If we look at things based off of evolution if we came out of evolved monkeys why has that evolution process stopped then?

    It hasn't stopped. Genetic mutation and the selection process continue within the human race to this day.

    2.) Scientists still have not been able to create life from nothing as well because that's basically what evolution says.

    Evolution is a scientific theory that explains the diverse speciation we observe on our planet. It says NOTHING about the origins of life. You're confusing abiognesis with evolution. They're two very separate things.

    Furthermore, scientists also haven't been able to create a stable nuclear fusion reactor - are we then justified in believing the Sun is powered by the breath of Zeus? Should we just chuck out the entire process of nucleosynthesis and supplement whatever we feel like because scientist can't do something in a lab? Do you really think that's a valid objection?

    3.) The bible has been around for a very long time and many things out of the bible can be proven historically such as places and such.

    The Odyssey also references real places and time periods. Are we then justified in believing that Odysseus actually slayed a giant cyclops? Or that mermaids actually tried to lure him off his ship so they could kill him?

    Just because the Bible references some towns of antiquity doesn't mean that it's story's are actually true. Not only that, there's a great deal of things written in the Bible that are historical false. For example, is says that 4,200 years ago there was only one language - yet we have hundreds and hundreds of writings from different cultures during that time period. Or it says that King Hezekiah only worshiped one God - yet we have his seal which includes both the symbol or Ra and an Ankh. Or it says that Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Tyre - but we know he was never able to breach the towns walls - and the city still exists to this day. Etc.

    4.) Also I personally have had prayers answered though that was before I identified as a JW which for me makes me believe that the bible is real.

    What about all your unanswered prayers? We all have desirable and favorable experiences happen in our lives. We also all have undesirable and unfavorable experiences. You're just counting the hits and ignoring all the misses.

    5.) But by going off and identifying as atheist instead all your really doing too is justifying what JW say happens to people when they leave the religion. And your allowing a religion to steal your personal spirituality.

    This is as absurd as it is offensive. The most spiritual people I know are atheists. And most of us didn't lose our faith. Rather, we found our curiosity. As such, we now have a much deeper and richer connection to the natural world around us and to the people in our lives. We know that this life is the only one we've got and we're determined to make the best of it. And to leave the world a little bit better off than when we entered it.

    6.) And in the event that the bible is true you've turned your back on god.

    Can you turn your back on something that isn't there? Would it be meaningful for me to say that since you don't actually believe there's "one ring to rule them all" you've turned your back on Gandalf?

    7.) But yeah if you want to fly off the handle and believe that you evolved from a monkey and you just evolved and gained the ability to speak and communicate even though the actual scientific proof of current day monkey's evolving into humans don't exist its totally up to you.

    There's no scientific proof? Are you sure?

    What about mitochondrial DNA?

    What about Endogenous retrovirus'?

    What about transitional fossil forms like Ardipithecus ramidus, Australopithecus anamensis, Australopithecus afarensis, Australopithecus deyiremeda, Kenyanthropus platyops, Paranthropus aethiopicus, Homo rudolfensis, Homo habilis, Homo erectus, Paranthropus boisei, Homo heidelbergensis, etc?

    What about atavisims?

    What about physiological, anatomical, and molecular vestiges?

    What about the our number 2 fused chromosome?

    Have you bothered to look at ANY of the scientific evidence for our evolution? Wouldn't it be a good thing to know something about evolution before you start insisting there's "no scientific proof"?

  • cofty

    TrueNoir would I be right in thinking you have never read a single book presenting the scientific evidence for evolution?

    Here are 38 separate threads proving that evolution is a fact to get you started. Number 39 will be online any day now.

    #1 Protein Functional Redundancy
    Comparing the sequences of amino acids in ubiquitous proteins confirms the relationship between all living things.

    #2 DNA Functional Redundancy
    Comparison of the DNA that codes for the amino acids of ubiquitous proteins predicts the tree of life with an astonishing degree of accuracy.

    #3 ERVs
    Endogenous retroviruses that infected our ancestors are found in the same place of the genome of our closest primate cousins.

    #4 Smelly Genes
    Hundreds of broken genes that used to code for olfactory receptors in our ancestors are still found in our genome.

    #5 Vitamin C
    Why humans can no longer make their own vitamin C and what that tells us about our species' history.

    #6 Human Chromosome 2
    Our second biggest chromosome is made up of two of our ancestors' chromosomes stuck end-to-end.

    #7 Human Egg Yolk Gene
    Humans and our primate cousins have the genes for making vitellogenin and they are all broken in the same way.

    #8 Jumping Genes
    Bits of parasitic code called ALU elements prove our common ancestry with primates.

    #9 Less Chewing More Thinking
    A broken gene for a type of muscle fibre we no longer have tells a story about our evolutionary past.

    #10 Non-Coding DNA
    In common with many other species huge amounts of our genome originated as copying errors.

    #11 Tiktaalik
    An amazing fossil discovery illustrates the transition of life from sea to land.

    #12 Lenski's E.coli Experiment
    An experiment with E.Coli, now in it's third decade, demonstrates the power of natural selection.

    #13 Morris Minor Bonnets
    Evolution has to make do with building on existing designs as illustrated by the recurrent laryngeal nerve.

    #14 Joey Goes to Oz
    Fossil evidence for the origins of marsupials found in Antarctica exactly as predicted.

    #15 Robinson Crusoe
    The biogeography of oceanic islands presents an impossible dilemma for creationism.

    #16 Aquatic Mammals
    An excellent sequence of fossils illustrates the evolutionary journey of whales from land to sea.

    #17 Belyaev's Silver Foxes
    A 50 year breeding programme demonstrates the amazing power of selection and the interconnected nature of genes.

    #18 Fish Fingers
    The evolution of limbs is mapped out in an amazing sequence of ancient fish fossils.

    #19 Goosebumps
    A vestigial reflex bequeathed by our hairier ancestors.

    #20 Lucy in the Sky...
    An exceptional fossil of a 3 million year old hominid.

    #21 Footprints in the Sand...
    Footprints at Laetoli show our Australopithecus afarensis ancestors were bipedal 3.6 million years ago.

    #22 The Hillocks of Hiss...
    A vestigial feature if the human ear shared by 10% of the population demonstrates our evolutionary history.

    #23 Faunal Succession...
    The consistent sequence of fossils found in the rocks can only be explained by evolution.

    #24 The Origin of Your Inner Ear...
    How the bones that reptiles eat with became the bones that we hear with.

    #25 Deep Time...
    Scottish geologist Andrew Hutton discovered the proof of earth's great antiquity.

    #26 Colour Vision...
    How gene duplication - new "information" -and mutation equipped us with trichromatic vision.

    #27 Monkeys, Typewriters, Shakespeare, 747s etc...
    Evolution is a combination of random mutations and non-random selection.

    #28 Something Darwin Didn't Say...
    A long term study of pigeons demonstrates how natural selection acts on a local population.

    #29 Use it or Lose it...
    Fossil genes reveal the history of modern species.

    #30 Your Third Eyelid...
    The remnants of a nictitating membrane reveals our evolutionary history.

    #31 Ten Questions For Creationists ...
    The basic facts about reality covered so far pose an impossible challenge to creationism.

    #32 Sexual Selection
    How female mating preferences led to some of the most remarkable features of living things.

    #33 A Tale About Tails
    Human embryology reveals our primate history.

    #34 Hiccups and Tadpoles
    How hiccups are a relic of our amphibian ancestors.

    #35 Nature Red in Tooth and Claw
    Nature's ability to inflict pain and suffering in the battle for survival.

    #36 Mass Extinctions
    96% of life was wiped out in The Great Dying 250 million years ago.

    #37 Testicles
    The plumbing of the vas deferens gives evidence of our fish ancestry

    #38 The Origin of Complex Cells
    How a merger of simple cells made complexity possible

  • Phaedra


    I really get where you're coming from. I have no answers. Raised in a similar environment that was less liberal, I am still searching for God. Not having much luck.


  • SouthCentral

    I think that I am DEFINITELY a spiritual person. I feel that ALL religions are man made, money-making machines. Creflo Dollar, Joel Osteen, Fred Price or Jehovah's Witnesses, they are all a "Snare and a Racket!!!" I think they all have good and bad in them. My wife is still active, but she respects my beliefs. The org. is JUST a social mechanism for us. I use my job as an excuse to miss the meeting, because it is VERY demanding.

  • A Ha
    A Ha

    I got it a bit backwards, but my process went something like...

    Well, now I know JWs aren't the correct religion, so I need to find the right one...

    Which Christian religion is is?.....

    Is it a Christian religion?...

    Is there a "one true religion"?

    Does God even want and/or need to be worshiped?

    Does God even exist?

    I would have saved myself years if I asked the last question first.

  • Chook

    My mothers side is real religious catholic , my brother is a priest, for me it's just one of those things that get imprinted from a young age . It maybe from a lack of education or knowledge but the " what I consider better" option for me is that their is pretty good design in my surroundings, so god creator lord is easier for my mind. There is just to many unanswered questions which I don't think any holy person has the answers for, and the bible is just plain to complex for my mind and the God in there should have written a less complex book. The stories are crazy in the black book, but then again if I was writing it , it could of turned in that direction. If God cares he just has a strange way of showing it.

  • redpilltwice

    Organised religion cannot be trusted. I'm absolutely no buddhist, but I seek spirituality in the beauty of nature and how the universe mesmerizes us. I'm still open to practical "christian" principles that work for me, but I don't push them to extremes. I cannot prove/disprove any divine intervention in the past, there are no convincing clues that we are living in the last days, or for an afterlife for the future. I await the future of science and knowledge with room for errors. I've replaced my excitement about bible prophecy with TTATT and our attempt to put man on Mars! In a different, non-jw way, the future stills looks interesting to me!

  • jookbeard

    in the very early years of me leaving I had a very good friend(RIP) who was an evangelical christian, he invited me to his church a couple of times, and I never went again,it just wasn't for me, I've not set foot in a church since, well over 20 years, and I cant say my life is any poorer for it.

  • RogueLeader
    Well, now I know JWs aren't the correct religion, so I need to find the right one...
    Which Christian religion is is?.....
    Is it a Christian religion?...
    Is there a "one true religion"?
    Does God even want and/or need to be worshiped?
    Does God even exist?
    This is the exact place I'm at right now A Ha... I had doubts for a few years but managed to sweep them under the rug, like other JW's. But now, I'm searching for some sort of spiritual stability. Does God even exist? Is religion just a scam? Is there one 'true' religion? Were we created or just a chance happening in the cosmos? Questions, questions... I should be the 'Riddler' LOL
  • Vidiot
    Coded Logic - "Have you bothered to look at ANY of the scientific evidence for our evolution?..."

    ...That isn't automatically biased against it right out of the starting gate?

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