GOING DOWN TO THE WIRE

by You Know 112 Replies latest jw friends

  • You Know
    You Know
  • Dawn
    Dawn

    You Know - loved the picture!! That was funny.

    I've been thinking about this and just had to ask you another question. Earlier you stated that the Watchtower was already going to face judgment from Jehovah - and in earlier posts I was under the impression that you expect it to be a major fall-out, that one of the reasons you were here was to guide people through this and to find those that had been stumbled by past actions of the Society. Am I right so far? Please correct me if I'm wrong on these impressions.

    So - your warnings that you post, like this thread....are you encouraging people to go back to the Organization? I mean, why would I want to go back to an Organization that is about to face judgment and crumble? Or are you encouraging people to mend their relationship with God/Jehovah? Or both? I'm confused.

  • 4horsemen
    4horsemen

    You Know,

    No Larouche quote or link?

    Do the names Hiroshima and Nagasaki mean anything to you?

    Also, I am not understanding (if the demons know they are toast) why didnt they get Hitler the A-bomb plans? If it wasn't their "time" only one other beings time it could be: Jah himself.

    Do you have kids?

    If you see your kid, or your neighbors kid getting beat up by an older, bigger, more powerful kid, and you do nothing but say: "Well, I told him not to go outside. Im going to let him get beat up as a sort of object lesson. And if by chance he gets hurt, (or dies) hey, no problem, I can always have another kid."

    You would say that as a father, your lack of action is NOT in any way indicative of personal responsibility?

    Jehovah is waiting for HIS specified time, patient, because he does not desire any to be destroyed? OK Yet, some will always be destroyed. If the test questions are obivous then end the test. But dont play with people's lives like a puppet master.

    Today I just took my 1915 born JW grandfather to the doctor(His JW son and daughter are "too busy" ). I see lots of old people in the waiting room looking not too well and closer to oblivion than not and wonder (slightly) if Nietzsche was right: That the kindest act a man can do is to gather his family and friends and end his life in his prime, before they see the decline all experience before death. The best part is that as my grandfather sits on the doctors table, he's saying of his health problems, "All this due to Adam. Adam and Eve" Woe is me! Then he starts telling me to go back to the KH, "this system this and, this system that" etc. His whole life has been a bill of goods that he has to pay for with his death.

    Waiting on the WTBS, fosters, inculcates, BREEDS, a lack of life responsibility and that is a perfect way to be manipulated by fear. You never have to take action. You simply drift. You then look to other people's suffering (suicide bombers, Enron, terrorists, El Nino) as signs of your delieverance. You actually view these as glad tidings. Say what? As long as your pain is ended, who gives a rat's @ss who else dies? After all your God has blessed the event? Where the hell is your humanity?

    That is why I say: How about a real test? Take away Satan and his "demons" influence. Restore man to a sinless state, bring the earth back inline FIRST. Show mercy by sparing life, not taking it. See what happens to that hard hearted CEO when he doesnt have to work 100 hrs week to keep up with the Jones' Or, here is a wild thought, when a man works for a dollars' wage and gets to keep the full dollar instead of 60 cents to the tax man and 40 cents for him. It is these sorts of external events as well as of course a mans heart condition that twist him into what he is. Not the least of these are Gods rules which he cannot keep, leading to all sort of lovely experiences: DF, child molestation, hypocrisy, shunning, blood stance, no part of the world.

    Doesn't Seven of 6 post remind you of the LA riots? That is in part how JW's are. Self martyrs with a overinflated sense of entitlement because of their "suffering" much of which is self appointed by their actions and beliefs and some of which is systemic.

    *******************************************************************************************************************

    "He gives man _instincts_. He gives you this incredible gift. Then for his own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel; he sets the rules in oppostion. It's the goof of all time. Look but dont touch. Touch but dont taste. Taste, dont swallow. And while youre jumping from one foot to the next, what's he doing? He's laughing his sick head off" -The Devil's Advocate

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson

    Doesn't Rev. 11:18 state that Jehovah "will bring to ruin those ruining the earth?" Yet we are asked to believe that after nuclear weapons have been used here and there that Jehovah Himself will bring to ruin other portions of the earth at Armageddon? Or will He destroy only people? If that is the case, why the constant barrage of pictures like the one on page 232 of the book "Revelation Its Grand Climax at Hand! Moreover, why would Jehovah do the same thing He accuses the ruiners of doing. Oh, the folly of those who want to literalize everything in the Book of Revelation. If nuclear weapons are used extensively then I suppose that is why Jesus is depicted as riding on a horse, with a sword in his mouth striking the nations and killing them (Rev. 19:15, 21) And blood up to a horse's bridle for two hundred miles (Rev. 14:20). That certainly should set mankind back to riding on horses and fighting with swords!

  • You Know
    You Know

    So - your warnings that you post, like this thread....are you encouraging people to go back to the Organization?

    I would rather encourage people to trust Jehovah and don't betray their brothers.

    I mean, why would I want to go back to an Organization that is about to face judgment and crumble?

    For one thing, there is no escaping Jehovah's judgments. The world is facing God's inescapable judgment. All institutions, systems, and peoples will stand before Jehovah during the oncoming judgment period. But, as regards Jehovah's organization, and what is called Jehovah's organization, namely the Watchtower Society, just because we come under God's judgment doesn't mean that all is lost. It will just require a good bit of faith to get through. Isn't that what we should expect?

    Or are you encouraging people to mend their relationship with God/Jehovah? Or both? I'm confused.

    The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is nothing. Jehovah is God and we should worship him and nothing else. The Watchtower has served its purpose in our case only if we have developed a close relationship with God that is able to survive the fiery trials ahead. To some extent the apostate accusations are true, that Jehovah's Witnesses are followers of men and not God, so the coming demise of the Watchtower will allow each Witness the opportunity to demonstrate their faith more directly to God under the most trying of circumstances. The thing is, that if we are confused going in, it will be difficult to see our way clear. The tribulation is going to be a time of great confusion and fear. So, when people are terrorized they tend to make very bad decisions based upon animal instincts of survival. I am afraid that's going to be most people's undoing who don't have a very good concept of what the truth is. / You Know

  • You Know
    You Know

    No Larouche quote or link?

    My oversight. Here ya go >http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/1999/lar_mad_brzezinski_2614.html

    Do the names Hiroshima and Nagasaki mean anything to you?

    Yes, of course. They are synonomous with Fat Man and Little Boy.

    Also, I am not understanding (if the demons know they are toast) why didnt they get Hitler the A-bomb plans?

    Maybe they tried to and failed? Who knows?

    If you see your kid, or your neighbors kid getting beat up by an older, bigger, more powerful kid, and you do nothing but say: "Well, I told him not to go outside. Im going to let him get beat up as a sort of object lesson. And if by chance he gets hurt, (or dies) hey, no problem, I can always have another kid."

    Wrong analogy. Jehovah has disowned the world and the world has disowned Jehovah. Up to the present moment Jehovah has kept the sun shining upon his enemies, but that is only temporary. A disaster is the only possible outcome for such a God-hating wayward system of things.

    Jehovah is waiting for HIS specified time, patient, because he does not desire any to be destroyed? OK Yet, some will always be destroyed. If the test questions are obivous then end the test. But dont play with people's lives like a puppet master.

    You aren't in any position to be giving God orders, are you?

    Waiting on the WTBS, fosters, inculcates, BREEDS, a lack of life responsibility and that is a perfect way to be manipulated by fear.

    You have a very warped sense of what Jehovah's Witnesses are all about. The Watchtower isn't going to bring about God's kingdom. What gave you that idea? The truth is, we have a greater sense of responsibility to be true to God not lesser.

    You never have to take action. You simply drift.

    What action are you taking?

    Say what? As long as your pain is ended, who gives a rat's @ss who else dies? After all your God has blessed the event? Where the hell is your humanity?

    Whoever wants this wicked system to go on crushing manking year-after-year is lacking in humanity. Jehovah has promised to replace this world with a better one. Righteous people think that that is wonderful. Wicked people think God is a bully if he allows them to suffer the full impact of their folly. That's just the way it is.

    How about a real test? Take away Satan and his "demons" influence. Restore man to a sinless state, bring the earth back inline FIRST. Show mercy by sparing life, not taking it. See what happens to that hard hearted CEO when he doesnt have to work 100 hrs week to keep up with the Jones'

    That's exactly what Jehovah is going to do. Perhaps you just need a Bible study. But, the thing is, the present world is facing a meltdown. It is too bad for sure, but it's not God's fault that people are wicked and stupid and refuse to take note of what's going on is it? God didn't build thousands of nuclear warheads did he? No, at some point there's going to be hell to pay for all the innocent blood that has been shed. Jehovah's judgment is that those who sow the wind reap the whirlwind of destruction. / You Know

  • You Know
    You Know
  • Dawn
    Dawn

    Ok - one last question You Know - I promise - just trying to make sure I'm clear on where you are coming from.

    The Watchtower has served its purpose in our case only if we have developed a close relationship with God that is able to survive the fiery trials ahead

    So what about those individuals that have developed a close relationship with God outside of the Watchtower?

    Here's my reasoning on my current spiritual position. I had many questions, and I had studied up on these and asked a number of individuals (JW elders and pastors from other churches) to show me their position scripturally. To make a long story short - after about a year of studying and prayer, I finally made the decision that I could not return to the JW's. I do not believe their doctrines and could not teach it door to door - I believe that they have basically diverted attention from God and Jesus to themselves. I'm sure you don't agree with that - but it is how I feel and I had to be true to my conscience.

    Jesus said that we could ask ANYTHING in prayer and it would be given us - so I asked him for 4 things: (1) open my eyes to the truth, whatever it is, (2) don't let me be mislead, and (3) give me the strength to follow the course he wants for me, (4) forgive me where I screw up. I believe his promise - I also feel led by him in the course I have taken - I was re-baptised last year by a non-denominational pastor and began attending Chruch regularly as well as weekly bible studies. I find them very uplifting and encouraging - I'm learning a lot - and I see him working in my life.

    So back to your quote - the Watchtower did not help me develop a close relationship with God, but this non-denominational church that I am attending now has been of some help. Although I must confess that all the WORK has been done by God. Anyways.....where am I going with this rambling.......oh yea - my question - What about those individuals that have developed a close relationship with God outside of the Watchtower?

  • You Know
    You Know

    So what about those individuals that have developed a close relationship with God outside of the Watchtower?

    We'll see, won't we? Paul said that each one's work will be shown up by undergoing the trial by fire. Do you honestly think the average church-goer is going to make the right decisions when under tyrannical coercion to compromise? One thing, though, that is very elementary is that there is only one true faith, and the Scriptures are very clear that God draws all of his own into one association. Jesus spoke about his followers being branches of a vine-like organization. Nearly every prophetic book speaks about some aspect of how that comes about. . So, there's simply no such thing as a faithful Christian apart from God's congregation. You are just fooling yourself if you think you can have a stand alone relationship with Jehovah apart from those who are similarly devoted to God. It doesn't work that way. As far as the so-called non-denominational churches, they are no different than the mainstream churches of Christendom. They teach all the same Babylonish doctrines that make it virtually impossible for a person to truely know Jehovah. / You Know

  • Valis
    Valis
    To some extent the apostate accusations are true, that Jehovah's Witnesses are followers of men and not God, so the coming demise of the Watchtower will allow each Witness the opportunity to demonstrate their faith more directly to God under the most trying of circumstances. The thing is, that if we are confused going in, it will be difficult to see our way clear.

    What is all this "more directly" business? There is no notion of JWs not going throught the tribulation without each other...for better or worse,... you seem to want to branch out and have the You Know Kingdom Hall of You Know's Witnesses......like you so gracefully said without regard for the English language...

    Things are gettn interestinger and interestinger every day.

    Please come to an Apostafest so you can be fixed....

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