The Outing of Faders, and the Epilogue of Sic Semper Tyrannis

by zed is dead 298 Replies latest members private

  • *lost*
    *lost*

    Zed -n just wanted to give you some support dude, feel the love ?

    I think it is admirable what you are doing and I truly respect you for it. Putting yourself out there, standing up and helping others, personally and hands on.

    If only we had more like you in the world, it would be such a nicer place.

    We have to remember, we are not all living in a 'fairy story' we are living in a dark dangerous world, with some dark dangerous people.

    The 'mental' is just as dangerous a threat as the 'physical'.

    There are many, many, two faced, double agenda, devious, cunning, sly minded people in our existence, whose only goal in life is .... 'SELF' no matter what the cost.

    Players, playing the crowd, working, working, working - the crowd. All waffle and words, no substance, con-men.

  • DeWandelaar
    DeWandelaar

    As with all communities everyone has their own hassle and agenda. The main mistake made is the same mistake that we made by being in the bOrg:

    the fact that you are now out does not mean you can trust everyone that is out (in the bOrg it is vica versa).

    You need to be and stay a critical thinker and especially when you seek for friendships and understanding.

    That is one of the main reasons I tell my stories anonymously: Although I like people on this site and have respect for everyone does not mean I do trust you all... :)

    I was a member of a other community and for some reason the mother of an other fader was starting a witchhunt and "discovered" who I was. I was still lucky it was a closed community but still: I can not trust anyone on sites like these.

    Now if I get disfellowshipped though I would immediately come into the public with my full name and would start a "war" with the bOrg but NOT when in fade mode

  • besty
    besty

    @marvin:

    My aim was to reduce potential for harm as quickly as possible. Because there was some resistance to changing the Facebook thing by BBXB leadership, I took the liberty to advise that they rethink that resistance and stop the thing

    On what date did you offer this advice, and to whom?

  • Stealth
    Stealth

    Checking in to see if Cedars has outed himself yet. Didn't think so.

    Marvin (the spin doctor) said:

    "Cedars was not in a position to have the Facebook group undone based on his say-so."

    In my experience a president would have the ultimate authority on an operational situation such as this.

    Could you provide some evidence that Cedars wanted to shut this down and on what date, but others under the authority of the president prevented him? And if true, why didn't he resign the position just as Barbara did?

    This discription does not match at all with the attitude that was being displayed when others were offering the same advice at the time this all was actually happening.

    It seems a bit contrived.

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    I popped on over to see if any new light had been shed on the subject.

    Nothing's changed, I see you boys and girls are still at it ...

    It's still dead!

  • besty
    besty

    @oubliette - feel free to ignore us - this could last for years.

  • zed is dead
    zed is dead

    Oubliette,

    Is that your self-portrait?

    zed

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    besty, Thanks for the tip. You made me laugh. You have a PM!

    zed is dead: Is that your self-portrait?

    How did you guess? As one who is also dead, perhaps you can (for the benefit of everyone else participating, or not, on this thread) explain the physics of how I took this self-portrait and then posted it here. I'm not so good at those types of technical discussions.

  • cedars
    cedars

    Marvin is right in saying that I did not have the control over AAWA that people ascribed to me at the time, and continue to ascribe to me now. As president I was mostly a figurehead, part of a three-member board of directors that was necessary for legal purposes. We made it clear from the inception of AAWA that there should be no heirarchy, and if I had thrown my weight around claiming authority as president this would not have been well received. If anyone thinks, for example, that the wonderful Barbara Anderson would take orders from anyone, they are sorely mistaken! (I mean that in the nicest possible way, Barbara!)

    If anything, at the time it felt very much as though it was my colleagues who were controlling me. I was even effectively banned from posting on this forum when the crisis broke. I broke this ban when I interjected on the thread where SST revealed his outing (in an effort to find out details), and received no end of grief from some of my fellow board members for doing so.

    Part of the problem during the three week delay in getting the group closed down was the lack of information on both sides. Some of those calling for the group to be closed were doing so on the basis that it wasn't a secret group, or wasn't secret when it was first set up. This assumption was false, since the group had always been secret. And whether the group was secret or not carried huge implications as to how easy or difficult it was for outsiders to see what was going on inside the group.

    As the crisis deepened I sought assurances that, not only was the group secret, but it was impossible for outsiders to get in and identify who was inside it. The person responsible for setting up the group assured me that this was the case. However, once we discovered clear evidence that, despite the secret setting, people could apparently somehow join the group at will without administrator approval, things moved much more quickly and I and others demanded that the group be closed.

    I am not trying to excuse myself. People are asking for information and I feel compelled to give it, even though it seems the more information I give the more this is used as ammunition for personal attacks that I am being defensive. If I just apologise without giving information, this is also deemed insufficient. I am stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place.

    Whatever the circumstances surrounding the setting up of the group, and my lack of personal responsibility for "outing" individuals (which rebel8 and now finally Zed have been gracious enough to acknowledge) the fact remains that I was still president at the time and therefore the buck stopped with me. I especially now regret and thus apologise for not making more of an effort early on to get the group closed down the moment concerns were raised. The fact that I had been led to believe that the group was safe was the reason why I acted so slowly on this score, but nevertheless I apologise for not acting on intuition and doing more.

    As to those calling for me to be "outed" in recompense, such "eye for an eye" logic would be more obviously applicable if it had been me who was directly and personally responsible for the outing of individuals on facebook (which I wasn't), or if the closing of the group was solely my decision to make (which it wasn't). The punishment of which I am deemed deserving would also make more sense if I was the only one who would suffer because of it. In fact, if I were the only one to suffer the grief and aggravation of being outed I would have outed myself a long time ago. But without going into details, I can assure you that many around me would suffer if I was outed at this precise moment, including in a life-threatening health-related way, who had absolutely no involvement in (or knowledge of) this series of events whatsoever.

    That being said, of course I recognise that, just as my outing would be unfair, so was the outing of those who were outed from this debacle deeply unfair, damaging and unforeseen, and likely in most cases also affected multiple persons. For this I can only apologise again and again and again if necessary. But I'm not sure how productive it is to rake over and over this continually, seemingly in efforts to find some new angle that simply isn't there, or make me suffer some punishment that will somehow undo the damage that was done, when that's clearly not how it works.

    Cedars

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    You are going to need that shovel, Cedars.

    I appreciate the noble gesture to provide honest information even though it might be ammunition against you.

    But once again, you apologize and then say you were not responsible:
    ___________________________________________
    Cedars: The fact that I had been led to believe that the group was safe was the reason why I acted so slowly on this score, but nevertheless I apologise for not acting on intuition and doing more.

    As to those calling for me to be "outed" in recompense, such "eye for an eye" logic would be more obviously applicable if it had been me who was directly and personally responsible for the outing of individuals on facebook (which I wasn't), or if the closing of the group was solely my decision to make (which it wasn't).

    ______________________________________________

    So, you once again focused on how you are not personally responsible despite realizing that is the problem. I say again that if you want to be so damned sure that you are not personally responsible, then you should just stop commenting. You just explained how you believed a BBXB person about Facebook ahead of those claiming it would harm themselves. That makes you PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE for not insisting on shutting down the group regardless of whether or not others would listen to you.

    ________________________________________________

    Cedars: The punishment of which I am deemed deserving would also make more sense if I was the only one who would suffer because of it. In fact, if I were the only one to suffer the grief and aggravation of being outed I would have outed myself a long time ago. But without going into details, I can assure you that many around me would suffer if I was outed at this precise moment, including in a life-threatening health-related way, who had absolutely no involvement in (or knowledge of) this series of events whatsoever.

    _________________________________________________

    I am not calling for your outing, but can't you read how you are saying your outing would be terrible to many and then apply that to those that were outed? Don't you think someone else's grandmothers and mothers, siblings, spouses, etc. just might be in the same "life-threatening health-related" situations you describe?

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