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I want to thank those who offered answer to my question about being added to “apostate” Facebook groups. It helps.
I don’t understand the other replies.
OnTheWayOut,
Have I offended you somehow? The episode you speak of was not attempted apologia by me—for anyone or anything.
Like Zeb, I don’t like to see people needlessly harmed. When I see a person or group being maligned within a community where I’m active, my usual practice is to engage the issue. My aim is not simple defense. My effort is to insist that any derogatory accusations are sustainable, that is rather than being invention or simple gossip. Accusations made publicly deserve to be challenged publicly so that 1) any deserved discredit is underscored and 2) any embellishment within accusations is likewise revealed. This leaves whatever discredit is due with rock solid support, which is how it should be.
A primary method I use is the asking of pointed questions, meaning specific questions of details asserted as fact. This annoys some people, and they show it. I can’t help that. Whether a person wants to answer publicly for things they say publicly is for them to decide.
And, speaking of answering questions, in hindsight I can see how easy it should have been to undo the Facebook site. What I don’t know is how capable Cedars was at the time to have undone the Facebook site. My take of an outsider looking on was that despite being president Cedars did not have command authority, meaning volunteers did not have to jump when he said jump. My own experience is that the group was, at the time, very eclectic and these members felt liberty to act in ways they believed appropriate whether others thought it appropriate or not. I don’t know all the ins and outs, or the details of everything Cedars was dealing with at the time. What I never saw was anyone inside that group who was attempting to inflict personal harm on any individual. From my position at the time, it looked like Cedars was diligent behind the scenes trying to stomp out fires to the left, right, above and below. The fire at issue here got out of hand.
I’ll add something else to this context. On more than one occasion I’ve been outed. I know what that feels like. Being placed onto a Facebook group is not akin to the outing known to me. To me being outed is to be targeted and affirmed by some positive tangible method. My passive addition to “apostate” Facebook groups does not feel like my other experiences of being outed. Perhaps my previous experience left me calloused to the event. Perhaps I don’t understand the threat. Perhaps the experiences are different to me because one is not the same threat as the other. Or, perhaps there is some other reason (or reasons) why the experiences are so different to me. But the experiences are different to me nevertheless. Of course, I’m not in a position to question what anyone else feels, or what their experience was/is. That said, one thing that has not escape my notice is an apparent repeated failure to give innocuous information when asked for in order to help verify some of the more poignant claims made. Many questions I asked when engaging this whole subject were reviled as irrelevant and without bother to give reason for the alleged irrelevancy. When the same participant doing that then demand that I should accept their accusations made of other participants I have reason for pause. When/if the same participants reduces themselves to nothing more than ad hominem toward me my reason for pause only grows.
There are lots of ways to harm people. Outing them is one way. When accusations are made publicly they deserve the same level of scrutiny. This is because public accusation is a means of harming people.
In any event, my sense is you are somehow offended by me. I don’t understand that. If you are offended by me I regret it. I don’t know how it happened or what caused it. Regardless, I value your input to this community.
Marvin Shilmer
