The Outing of Faders, and the Epilogue of Sic Semper Tyrannis

by zed is dead 298 Replies latest members private

• 

  blondie

  All I can say is that ex-jws are not necessarily all trustworthy just because they left the WTS. Personally, I recognized a few that posted on JWN from their description realizing I knew them in real life. But I never considered revealing their identity and took some time before I pm'd them and revealed myself to them.

  Now I have little to lose in the JW world even if they knew who I am. Though not df'd or da'd, being inactive can yield the same response from jws I know.

  So be careful, don't think there is a bad motive, just stupidity or no caring for anyone but themselves. "Defeating the WTS" is not worth sacrificing other ex-jws on the mission of revenge.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  How about this time, instead of "Provide me direct information (dates)" you recognize that it was the demand for more revealing direct information before action that caused the problem?

  How about "I totally screwed up by not immediately getting someone to remove the FB group until I, as president, could see what happened."?

  This may be an old can of worms. I am one who was auto-added and also a faded, but removed myself with no harm. I am one who welcomed Cedars back to let bygones be bygones. But your similar response at this late point is not changed - "Its not my fault. Others were in charge of that. Give Mr more information so I can investigate before more is done/said."

  Please note that my quotes are all paraphrases to capture the essence of how I (and possibly others) feel about what was said and are not actual quotes.
• 

  Vidiot

  Truth seeker 674 - "It is truly a disgraceful thing to out a fader."

  True; all it does is reinforce what the WTS says about XJWs; that they're duplicitous and not to be trusted.

  blondie - "'Defeating the WTS' is not worth sacrificing other ex-jws..."

  Blondie's right; none of us are pawns in a chess game. If the XJW community has to cheat in order to win, it doesn't deserve to win.

  That being said; while I don't neccesarily doubt this individual's account, it's hard to visualize Cedars behaving in this fashion, especially considering how profusely he's apologized for the mistakes that happened under his tenure, and how much of an asset he's been to the XJW community in general...

  Is it possible the outed fellow unwittingly communicated with someone else posing as Cedars? Perhaps the unidientified individual Cedars has claimed was ultimately responsible for his resignation from the AAWA?

  I'm just trying to make sense of it all.
• 

  slimboyfat

  That's such a shame, and could easily have been avoided if the group had been removed.
• 

  cedars

  OnTheWayOut

  "Its not my fault. Others were in charge of that. Give Mr more information so I can investigate before more is done/said."

  I can only apologize sincerely for things I have a recollection of. I have absolutely no recollection of sending the emails it is claimed I sent, but, just to confirm, I am asking for the date on which they were sent so I can check my sent box and apologize if the claims are true. You are entitled to interpret this as arrogance and aloofness on my part if you so wish, but I'm sure you'll appreciate that I can only apologize sincerely for things I can recall and recognise as having done wrong. Any other apology is just a token gesture for the sake of it.

  As to the timing of the removal of the facebook group to which people were force-added on the first day, I have already apologized for not responding to this sooner. Arguably most of the damage was done on the first day when people were force-added without their knowledge (or mine), but I understand that simply having the group in existence when it wasn't completely secure kept the threat of outing alive to some extent. Once I could clearly see that the group wasn't fully secure I pushed for it to be closed, but this was obviously much later than it should have been. If I could go back and fix this sooner than I did I obviously would. Without being able to do that, all I can do is keep apologizing.

  At some point we reach a stage where we must decide whether apologies are enough. It seems for some they are, for others they are not. As sad as I feel for zed's personal suffering at the hands of AAWA, he has already made it clear that sorry isn't enough. In fact, when all of this was first blowing up he had a comment removed by Simon which read, "I want AAWA to die more than the Borg. They are evil cocks**kers." Whether he regrets saying that or not I have no way of knowing, but I can't help wondering sometimes whether my death would be the only thing that would satisfy him.

  Cedars
• 

  Gorbatchov

  Take care. The basic or initial problem is not AAWA, JWN or actions of persons, the problem is the DF rules of the society and the actions of the elders.
• 

  Vidiot

  Gorbatchov - "The basic or initial problem is not AAWA, JWN or actions of persons, the problem is the DF rules of the society..."

  The paranoiac in me can't help but wonder if they somehow engineered this whole clusterf**k to sow dissention in the XJW community.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  "I can only apologize once again..."

  I am only trying to help you. At this late point, that first sentence might have sufficed for many. Maybe even Sst would recognize that there is no turning back. But at this late point, once again asking for more information looks just like it did then- seeing if you can escape blame by tearing apart every word that was said and assign the blame to faceless others. (And as I do it to your current words, feel free to revive a demand that we act like adults and stop doing that.)

  By the time your comment here got to "However..." it totally lost any genuineness of any apology. In short, nobody is asking you, after the JC already met, to go back and check what was said for yourself. I am sure you want to do just that to find some way to blame Sst himself.

  Just recognize that during your presidency, he made the request to do something and you stood on your demand for more information instead of doing as requested. Your very answer here shows nothing has changed.

  If someone approached me and said I did them wrong when I was an elder, I would focus on sincere apology instead of asking for proof.
• 

  sir82

  I can't help wondering sometimes whether my death would be the only thing that would satisfy him.

  Over-dramatize much?
• 

  Oubliette

  I'm not trying to take sides here or add any fuel to the fire, but I'd like to remind everyone that ultimately it is the destructive teachings and policies of the WTBTS that are really to blame here.

  It is impossible to live an open and honest authentic life apart from the religion if ever one was once part of it. Actions that would be completely non-issues in the normal world become devastating in JW-land and the wilderness and badlands inhabited by faders, disfellowshipped and disassociated ones.

  No doubt, we all need to very careful of our actions knowing how this cult is and how it makes people behave, but again: It is the WTBTS and the policies of their leadership that is ultimately responsible for these actions that destroy lifes.