The Outing of Faders, and the Epilogue of Sic Semper Tyrannis

by zed is dead 298 Replies latest members private

• 

  Simon

  Marvin: your description of events don't make sense. It sounds like you are now saying you were in the thick of it and yet at the time (actually weeks after it all kicked off) you were asking endless questions and struggling to understand the issue. How then are we to now believe you were giving the AAWA advice?

  It appears that you are either genuinely slow and stupid which I don't believe or else you are deliberately trying to spin and complicate things. That you do this every time you do in defense of the AAWA makes me think you have some link to or at least sympathy for them that you are not being totally open about.

  While that is your choice, it does not give you the right to tell someone claiming that they suffered because of the AAWAs actions that they are a liar because 'the elders wouldnt do that' when many of us know from bitter first hand experience exactly how underhand they can be and how eager they are to act on hearsay. They are no court and the slightest hint of apostacy is enough for them.

  Why the repeated defence of the AAWA? They screwed up. End of story.
• 

  still thinking

  It is a result of things Cedars told me of his sentiments....Marvin

  Must be true then....Cedars...as the anonymous head of an organisation told you so.

  But SST has to PROVE what he claims...or you don't believe it.
• 

  JeffT

  None of that means Cedars carries no responsibility for what was going on. He does. It only means his responsibility is not as I’ve seen so many portray it. Cedars was not in a position to have the Facebook group undone based on his say-so. In fact, based on my observation at the time, there was a great many things Cedars wanted to do that he was not allowed to do. But none of this excuses what was done under Cedars’ time as president of the association. I think he felt he could fix things more efficiently from the inside and that’s why he stayed on as president at the time as he did. He was in a position of leadership but was not in a position to steer. He was only in a position to influence steering. There were many sets of hands on the wheel at the same time. Many.

  Bullshit. I've held a number of positions in business including controller, a couple of brief stints as VP, and several consulting positions. I read AAWA's incorporating documents. Cedars was President and would have been acting on his authority as such had he chosen to shut down the website. If facebook didn't do so immediately he could have followed up a request with the documents and threats of legal action. I have no doubt Facebook would have resonded immediately (or people, namely SST could sue FB for not doing so). If there were too many hands on the steering wheel, that too was Cedars responsibilty as CEO to fix.

  From reading this thread it is clear that AAWA badly hurt some people and won't take responsibility for doing so, at least not to the extent of trying to make amends to those whose lives were damanged by AAWA's actions.
• 

  zed is dead

  Jeff T,

  They are more interested in looking good than being good.

  zed
• 

  JeffT

  Agree. In another thread (maybe even on another board) when this all blew up I said that it looked to me that AAWA learned its damage control skills in the Nixon White House.
• 

  still thinking

  I agree JeffT...I don't know why it would be so hard to believe SSTs story when it was predicted very early on that this would be the result if the page was not taken down immediately. And yet Cedars self absorbed story is believable by some....when right from the start there was a lack of communication from cedars, a lack of responsibility from Cedars, and a lack of action on Cedars part. Why on earth would ANYONE believe cedars tale over the story of someone harmed by the actions of an organisation that were clear for all to see. The result is no surprise to anyone. And the ex leader and apparently his defender (Marvin)...still want to claim that the result is untrue. And demand EVIDENCE from the victim.

  How anyone can even remotely defend an anonymous leader, who from the start, did nothing to reduce casualties, and try to dismiss the results of their inaction, is truly beyond me. The whole reason people were up in arms was because EVERYONE (except cedars apparently) could see that this would harm people if they didn't do something immediately. And it did. And apparently those people it harmed are supposed to provide some sort of written evidence...dates...copies of emails....jump through hoops to prove they were harmed. Meanwhile....Cedars thinks all he has to say is sorry and everyone should forgive and forget the harm he intentionally put people in, by DELIBERATELY not removing the fb page as soon as he was alerted to the potential for it to do damage to peoples lives. THAT is a deliberate action on his part. They did not er on the side of caution. They did exactly what is happening now....THEY demanded evidence that it would harm people BEFORE they would act to reduce the harm they caused.

  And I say THEY....because Cedars has in no way commented disagreeing with anything Marvin is saying. So unless he does. I will assume he agrees with Marvin. And that he also thinks SST is a liar.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  They are more interested in looking good than being good.

  I believe we learned that t-shirts were already made with "BBXB" logos, Spanky and Alfalfa already painted the logo on the "He-Man Watchtower Haters Club" clubhouse, videos were already made. It had already gone so far in an attempt to make BBXB look good. Only after the name was totally soiled by this auto-add fiasco was the group and the name changed, and then it was vital to keep the same initials so the t-shirts and the clubhouse didn't have to be changed.

  It's sort of like proclaiming a worldwide protest of Jehovah's Witnesses and 5 people show up. You can't let that go to waste. Say what a grand success the whole thing was and forget to mention the numbers. "It was worldwide, how do we know the numbers?"
• 

  UnConfused

  Expect Marvin to come along now and drown you in words and more words and obtuse arguments and challenges, but in the end you are exactly correct.
• 

  fizzywiglet

  And I say THEY....because Cedars has in no way commented disagreeing with anything Marvin is saying. So unless he does. I will assume he agrees with Marvin. And that he also thinks SST is a liar.

  No need to assume. Cedars already flat-out called it a "fabrication" (like nobody saw that one coming right around the time he whipped out the standard disingenuous politician response, "I don't recall").
• 

  slimboyfat

  I don't know why anyone is taking this new defense of "oh well maybe Cedars couldn't do anything about it at the time even if he wanted to" in any way seriously. Anyone who was reading events as they unfolded knows that is complete nonsense. This is just the latest diversion Marvin has struck upon in his ever more tenuous defense of the indefensible. (I still find it hard to believe Marvin is not just playing around, can anyone really be so obtuse?)

  Never did Cedars say, "hey guys I know this situation is terrible and I would love to fix it but my hands are tired". Nothing remotely like it.

  Instead, at the time, it was all, "just because people claim they have been hurt doesn't prove anything. It must be proved to my satisfaction before I will close it down."

  Don't let Marvin muddy the waters, it's all he is about.