Additionally I ask again, how is that a person seeking leave wt through the back door via fading, bears know responsibility for such action? Fading and attempting to leave wt is like trying to leave the mob, it typically isn't just allowed to happen, is it? I know that some do so successfully, my wife is a 8 year fader, is a registered voter, celebrates birthdays and holidays and lurks here, also has posted a couple of times. She runs the risk daily of being dfd as a result, which would cost her the relationship with her parents and siblings and my parents. I'm not insensitive or ignorant of this scenario. But isn't there inherent risk in taking this course and isn't it more likely that you will not just fade, but will eventually be discovered and dfd, if you not only fade but participate in exjw forums? Isn't there blame and responsibility shared by sst, aawa, and wt for ruining sst's life? Why is this totally dismissed and ignored? Please help me understand and adjust my views where necessary. I'm open to adjustment.
The Outing of Faders, and the Epilogue of Sic Semper Tyrannis
by zed is dead 298 Replies latest members private
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jeremiah18:5-10
Zed it sounds like from this response that you are primarily disgusted with what you perceive to be cedars having a lack of genuine repentance for his part, whatever part that was. I would also conclude then that he's subject to this because he returned to this forum and regular association with all of us. Is that correct? Is it your intention then that people need to beware of cedars and be careful trusting him? Is it that you feel he betrayed the trust he had earned at some poi t on some level thru his posts and website that holkds him to a high level of accountability? This I can agree with. Its obvious he bears some responsibility for the faults and damages caused by aawa, I don't dispute that. He has also apologized for his role. Each person is left having to determine for themselves, based upon reading post histories and his cyber personality as to the degree if repentance he is showing and to what degree they will engage him. Sst has had a personal experience with him as have others, I've had none. He hadn't even replied to any of my posts ever I don't think. There seems to be varied opinions about him. Each has a right to their opinions, but its distasteful to me to see anyone try to push their view on others whether good or bad. Cant we each make our own determination? To do so does require information, hopefully that's factual and not a personal agenda. The personal agendas turn me off. Thank you for your reply.
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zed is dead
jeremiah,
I am glad that you brought the focus of this thread back to the original topic, the faders themselves. As you know, there are risks involved with fading. Your wife deals with it every day. Someone from the Hall could see her go in to vote, or participate in a birthday party. These are risks that faders face as they go about their day-to-day lives.
The one threat that should have never happened, is to be outed by an organization that is supposed to be a support group for people in your situation. And when the problem was vociferously pointed out to them by Rebel8, fizzywiglet, Dagney, and others, they intentionally did not correct it because they were too concerned with the groups numbers than the safety of those they force added. They even bragged on their website of their monumental growth.
You are right in the fact that each person needs to examine the facts and draw their own conclusions. AAWA and Cedars' obfuscation of the facts give pause to anyone that would think of joining that organization, or any efforts of the individuals involved.
zed
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jeremiah18:5-10
Zed thank you for your reply. I've said pretty much all I have to say on this matter. I'm not a debater, I shy away from confrontation. Some people are comfortable drawingca line in the ground and asking people to choose a side. I'm more inclined to think there is common ground to be shared somewhere and room for each persons opinion and respect for those opinions, varied though they may be. I'm not certain if this is a strength or a weakness on my part, I waffle back and forth on my assessment of that. The one thing I take a staunch stand on, is the common denominator of all of us here, the damaging practices and requirements of wtbts, I have no love for them although I do have love for many of the individuals inside. I hope this common denominator can continue to be the focus and uniting force for all on board and not allow personal failings and missteps to derail our efforts. Thank you for your efforts and contributions to this cause.
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UnConfused
" Isn't there blame and responsibility shared by sst, aawa, and wt for ruining sst's life? Why is this totally dismissed and ignored? Please help me understand and adjust my views where necessary. I'm open to adjustment. "
Jeremiah - I would say this. When we got baptised it was with the belief that we were entering a religion that was actually God's True religion. So in that sense if we decide to leave and are shunned that would be on us. But when we find out that it's based on a pack of untruth's we should be able to leave as the contract is no longer valid. In the very least it should be our right to attempt to fade and avoid the consequences of something that we didn't sign up for. To be outed by fellow faders is pretty unforgivable.
That said of course it's forgivable, but cedars has been so lame about this that it might take him months or years to realize how lame he's been.
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jeremiah18:5-10
Unconfused thanks for your reply with which I I agree with the gist of. I hope I didn't out my wife a few posts ago, I would feel terrible if I did. I am certain she wouldn't blame me and would forgive me for it if I did. She's of the opinion she doesn't want any part of it. As you eluded to the colossal share of the blame in all of this is wt policies and trapping people in a cult, so sad that we can't leave of our own free will and yet maintain our relationships, heart-breaking!!!!
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jeremiah18:5-10
I guess the real point becomes, since we know the intolerant stance wt has toward anyone trying to leave, any deciding to must be very careful. Any who have already left are obligated to be sensitive to this especially toward those who are trying to fade and be sure not to aid the wt in their witch hunt to find such ones. I get it and feel I've expanded my comprehension and compassion on this matter. Thanks for the perspective.
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OnTheWayOut
Marvin tells me:
"Insofar as I can tell there is no evidence the email exchange you allude to occurred as claimed. Should we accept the assertion because it's made?"
So, after your fantastical claims made afterward of advising key people to do exactly what should have been done despite your total lack of understanding of force-adds to a facebook group, you won't mind if I insist on proof of the following claim by you:
"You asked me early in this discussion about my familiarity with your work, and in particular about your book. I read that book for Barbara Anderson in order to answer her request that I do so and advise whether it was a good addition to her web site in my opinion. I recommended it. Probably I was one of the first few persons who read your story, at least after you shared it with Barbara."
Thank you for reading my book. It is very special how you are right in the center, at the very pulse of everything important, or else you are name dropping even Barbara Anderson's name. So, show me the emails or have Barbara back you up on how you "advised" her.
Marvin, I have browsed through your "body of work" and while I am no longer interested in such detailed looks at doctrine, I really see no problems with you until this BBXB thing came up. I get that you stand by friends but going so far as to make claims that 93.5% of JWN readers can see right through and laugh at is just ridiculous. Prove yourself on those also- show us how you foresaw this terrible outing and how you advised people. Include dates.
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Simon
Ok, I had hoped this topic would die a natural death but it's thrashing about on the ground and in obvious pain so the kindest thing will be to help it on it's way.
I think everyone has had a chance to say what they want to say now and don't believe anyone is going to say "yeah, you know what ... I now think you're right !"