"Right to bear arms" should mean ...

by Simon 616 Replies latest members politics

  • besty
    besty

    hey entirely possible

    you're going to have to re-write this for me - i have no idea what you mean

    That's A clue. The U.S. being ninth is murder rate means there is a much more nuanced answer. The fact that the EU has a placed called "stab city" means other things are also at play....

    meantime I'd like to know your thoughts on why 15x gun ownership leads to 74x firearm homicide rates - US compared to UK.

    If the personal safety argument is credible, the death rate should be less than that in the UK, not 74x greater - or am I missing something?

    74x firearm homicide rate - think about that....

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    Nothing will prevent every death. Sad but true.

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    Besty.... re-written.

    That's *A* clue. The U.S. being ninth is murder rate means there is a much more nuanced answer. As to what causes that type of violence, the fact that the EU has a placed called "stab city", high in violence with with a low employment rate and a high rate of violence, yet virtually no guns, means other things are also at play....

  • besty
    besty
    Nothing will prevent every death. Sad but true.

    is that it?

  • Yohan
    Yohan

    OP, citizens were also allowed to own cannon at the time of that writing.

  • moshe
    moshe

    Google, knockout game, and see what can happen to you now.

    "The knockout game involves "unprovoked attacks on innocent bystanders," according to police who have had to deal with it."

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    I'll post this once again in case anyone missed it ...

    A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths

    By Max Fisher

    Jul 23 2012, 1:45 PM ET 575

    In part by forbidding almost all forms of firearm ownership, Japan has as few as two gun-related homicides a year.

    A Tokyo "gun" shop owner, who mostly sells air rifles, displays one of Japan's relatively few licensed rifles. (Reuters)
    I've heard it said that, if you take a walk around Waikiki, it's only a matter of time until someone hands you a flyer of scantily clad women clutching handguns, overlaid with English and maybe Japanese text advertising one of the many local shooting ranges. The city's largest, the Royal Hawaiian Shooting Club, advertises instructors fluent in Japanese, which is also the default language of its website. For years, this peculiar Hawaiian industry has explicitly targeted Japanese tourists, drawing them away from beaches and resorts into shopping malls, to do things that are forbidden in their own country.

    Waikiki's Japanese-filled ranges are the sort of quirk you might find in any major tourist town, but they're also an intersection of two societies with wildly different approaches to guns and their role in society. Friday's horrific shooting at an Aurora, Colorado, movie theater has been a reminder that America's gun control laws are the loosest in the developed world and its rate of gun-related homicide is the highest. Of the world's 23 "rich" countries, the U.S. gun-related murder rate is almost 20 times that of the other 22. With almost one privately owned firearm per person, America's ownership rate is the highest in the world; tribal-conflict-torn Yemen is ranked second, with a rate about half of America's.

    But what about the country at the other end of the spectrum? What is the role of guns in Japan, the developed world's least firearm-filled nation and perhaps its strictest controller? In 2008, the U.S. had over 12 thousand firearm-related homicides. All of Japan experienced only 11 , fewer than were killed at the Aurora shooting alone. And that was a big year: 2006 saw an astounding two, and when that number jumped to 22 in 2007, it became a national scandal. By comparison, also in 2008, 587 Americans were killed just by guns that had discharged accidentally.

    Almost no one in Japan owns a gun. Most kinds are illegal, with onerous restrictions on buying and maintaining the few that are allowed. Even the country's infamous, mafia-like Yakuza tend to forgo guns; the few exceptions tend to become big national news stories.

    Japanese tourists who fire off a few rounds at the Royal Hawaiian Shooting Club would be breaking three separate laws back in Japan -- one for holding a handgun, one for possessing unlicensed bullets, and another violation for firing them -- the first of which alone is punishable by one to ten years in jail. Handguns are forbidden absolutely. Small-caliber rifles have been illegal to buy, sell, or transfer since 1971. Anyone who owned a rifle before then is allowed to keep it, but their heirs are required to turn it over to the police once the owner dies.

    The only guns that Japanese citizens can legally buy and use are shotguns and air rifles, and it's not easy to do. The process is detailed in David Kopel's landmark study on Japanese gun control, published in the 1993 Asia Pacific Law Review, still cited as current. (Kopel, no left-wing loony, is a member of the National Rifle Association and once wrote in National Review that looser gun control laws could have stopped Adolf Hitler.)

    To get a gun in Japan, first, you have to attend an all-day class and pass a written test, which are held only once per month. You also must take and pass a shooting range class. Then, head over to a hospital for a mental test and drug test (Japan is unusual in that potential gun owners must affirmatively prove their mental fitness), which you'll file with the police. Finally, pass a rigorous background check for any criminal record or association with criminal or extremist groups, and you will be the proud new owner of your shotgun or air rifle. Just don't forget to provide police with documentation on the specific location of the gun in your home, as well as the ammo, both of which must be locked and stored separately. And remember to have the police inspect the gun once per year and to re-take the class and exam every three years.
  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    is that it?

    Is that what?

  • besty
    besty

    I don't recall any knife-based massacres of 20 innocent 5 year olds at school in the UK recently.

  • besty
    besty
    Nothing will prevent every death. Sad but true.
    is that it?

    that's your summary having assessed the facts? this is your considered opinion on the situation?

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