by Simon 616 Replies latest members politics
Deputy Dog said: The second amendment was not designed to protect our right to hunt or for target shooting. It was intended for the people (individuals) to use to dispose of tyrants.
Obviously Jared Lee Loughner viewed U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords as part of a tyranical government that he had the 'right' to dispose of. Was he within his rights to do this? If so, why is he is prison? If not, then the individual does not have the right to bear arms to 'dispose of tyrants'.
C'mon ... give an example of the tyrants that have been deposed because of your law and then tell me it isn't a pile of bullshit sustained by the insane.
And this type of emotional hyperbolic name calling is exactly why a resonable discussion is not possible.
Another absurd idea, comparing cars to guns.
I'm not comparing cars to guns. I am comnparing preventable deaths to each other. When looked at in that context, it's clear that the same people that complain about guns are willing to sustain a far higher death rate for convencience that they like.
You are unfortunately, spot on with this. My own opinion on this is that the break-down of the family dynamics is playing a huge part it what you described.
I am not sure what the cause is. Maybe it's something that's always been around and we notice it more now due to instant and worldwide news coverage. I don't know. I do know that the solution must involve better and preventative mental health care and prevention of access to weapons. How, though, do you tell if someone is just having a bad week or is going off the deep end in a time frame to do anything? How do allow legal ownership of firearms while preventing illegal ownership and prevention of ownership to those with stability issues? What do you do about the millions of guns already out there?
The second amendment was written 200 years ago, a healthy prosperous society changes and creates new laws to the betterment of that
society as it grows and involves. ....... rational logic
The Second Amendment is a thoroughly anachronistic law that even in its own time was only about the need to form a citizen's militia in case of an attempted British reconquest of the former colonies. That's it, folks. It should be interpreted as meaning just that, or better yet, repealed but there is the greater problem in the United States, which unlike no other country in the world, regards its first Constitution as a sacred writ. This perverted religious and fanatical lunacy as to how Americans interpret government and history is at the root of all its social problems.
Obviously Jared Lee Loughner viewed U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords as part of a tyranical government that he had the 'right' to dispose of.
Loughner thought the space flights were faked, the literacy rate was below 5%, women shouldn't be allowed in positions of power, was a 9/11 truther, was obsessed with Zetigeist:The Movie, beleived in a 2012 apocolypse and thought that by adding hyphens or colons to his name he could turn himself from a person into a non-taxable prepositional phrase.
Let's he honest, he had issues on EVERY level.
And this type of emotional hyperbolic name calling is exactly why a resonable discussion is not possible
Unless someone can show that the law is actually applicable then what other way is there to describe 200+ year adherance to a mantra that simply costs so many lives and never applies?
Unless someone can show that the law is actually applicable then what other way is there to describe 200+ year adherance to a mantra that simply costs so many lives and never applies?
It could easily be argued that precisely because that law exists there hasn't been a tyrant.
In any event, as I have shown, the issue REALLY isn't about saving lives, if so, there would be just as much outrage over a much higher preventable death rate. There would be outrage over the fact that the Canadian suicide rate expressed as a percentage of guns per capita is higher than the U.S., but we don't see that happening.
Simon
"Well, I'm sure those 6 and 7 year olds weren't tyrants. In fact, in the last 200+ years when has it EVER BEEN APPLIED?"
The people let the 6 and 7 year olds down.
"C'mon ... give an example of the tyrants that have been deposed because of your law and then tell me it isn't a pile of bullshit sustained by the insane."
I could take that in a few directions
First, the fact that you can't think of any tyrants could it's self be offered as proof of how well the amendment has worked. After the people kicked England's butt, none have ever tried (on a federal level). It's the dred of tyrants and/or bullies to think someone will stand up to them.
Second, I sure that there are many bullies (on the local level) with guns who are handled by law abiding citizens with guns, every day in this country. I could use myself for an example, but, here is a better one. http://www.newschannel5.com/story/15189350/68-year-old-grandma-shoots-home-invasion-suspects
68-Year-Old Grandma Shoots Home Invasion Suspects
Posted: Aug 01, 2011 6:53 PM EDT
By Mark Bellinger
NASHVILLE, Tenn. - A 68-year-old grandmother armed with a shot gun took aim at criminals in her neighborhood over the weekend, and she didn't miss. The woman shot two men trying to break into her home.
It happened in the early Saturday morning in South Nashville at a home on Glencliff Road. She said she had no regrets.
The woman keeps a shot gun next to her bed. It's been there for a long time.
She admitted she wasn't quite sure if she could ever pull the trigger and shoot someone, but she said she was scared and that's all it took.We agreed not to mention her name, but she said she wasn't a violent person.
"Never in my whole life have I ever harmed anything or anybody, but I've never been put in that position," she said.
Life changed in just a few seconds just past 2 a.m. Saturday.She showed us the French doors the men tried to break through. Police said they carried pistols, and a crowbar.
She was lying in bed at her South Nashville home on Glencliff Road, and was startled by someone trying to break in. She showed us her .410 gauge shot gun sitting next to her bed.
"This is my gun here. This is my choice," she said.
Knowing her wheelchair bound husband could not help she gathered her strength and courage and got ready to take on the intruders herself.
"I was standing right here. Just about right here. Maybe about right here. And they were beating that door. When the door opened and our burglar alarm went off I just fired instantly and I was lucky to hit both of them with a .410 shot gun," she explained.
Metro Police said ran from the house, jumped into a pickup truck and headed to the hospital.
Police arrested Flaco Camacho, 28-year-old Dorian Guzman, 32-year-old Oliver Rodriguez and 26-year-old Marlon Rameriz at Vanderbilt University Medical Center.
Camacho was shot in the face with bird shot. Part of his right index finger was also shot off.
Guzman was hit in the chest.
The woman said in the past people have laughed at the shot gun sitting next to her bed, but not anymore. She's received calls and emails cheering what she did.
She said, "One of them said ‘Go Granny Go.' I don't consider myself old, but apparently everyone else does."
Police said the suspects are charged with attempted aggravated robbery. At least one was armed, because police found a clip to his handgun in the woman's yard.
NewsChannel 5 asked her if she was glad the intruders were injured and not killed.
She said, "Yes, I guess I am. I would hate to know that there was a body laying there that I had to walk past the rest of my life. I'd see it the rest of my life. I know I would."
She said they got what they deserved for trying to break into someone's home.The suspects will be in court on Thursday.
Let's he honest, he had issues on EVERY level.
Indeed he did, yet he was able to legally purchase a 9mm Glock pistol and enough ammo to kill 6 innocent people.
Finklesteing said: The Second Amendment is a thoroughly anachronistic law that even in its own time was only about the need to form a citizen's militia in case of an attempted British reconquest of the former colonies.
Exactly. There was no way for them to know if and when the British would ever show up to try and re-claim America for the Britian. There was no radio, no radar, and no CNN back then, so citizens could arm themselves so that if the British did suddenly show up, they would be armed and ready to fight at a moments notice.
Today, the only kind of British invasion the USA has to worry about is in the form of the Spice Girls or the Rolling Stones. Times have changed, technology has changed and there is no need for every citizen to be armed with a semi-automatic weapon in case a foreign country decides they was to fight. In addition to shootings like this, there's tragedies like the Trayvon Martin case, the case of a father accidentally shooting his 7 year old son, or the father who shot his adopted son thinking he was a burglar. This happened again within a couple of weeks. Then there was Jordon Davis who was killed for playing music too loud. The list is endless. It's not just mentally disturbed people who are shooting; it's normal, everyday people who are doing it too.
NEWTOWN, Conn. — Adam Lanza lived among guns.
His mother, Nancy, collected them. She showed them off to her landscaper.
“Guns were her hobby,” said Dan Holmes, the landscaper of Nancy Lanza’s sprawling yard here on the edge of town. “She told me she liked the single-mindedness of shooting.”
Holmes said she even spoke of taking her son to the firing range to practice his aim.
As details of her son’s troubled life trickled out Saturday, the day after he gunned down 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School and his mother at their home, the portrait emerging is one of a detached killer who knew his way around a trigger and of a family that feared outsiders in the home.
Holmes said Nancy Lanza, who was divorced and had reportedly worked in finance, never invited him inside. She would pay him in the yard. The landscaper never laid eyes on Adam Lanza, a skinny, withdrawn, socially awkward 20-year-old who excelled in academics but apparently not in forming deep friendships.
“I would ring the bell on the front door, and she would come out the side and meet me,” he said. “It was a little weird. It’s stranger now thinking back on what happened.”
When she wanted to show Holmes an antique rifle, she proudly brought the gun — in its case — outside. How many guns Nancy had is not clear, though authorities say several were registered to her, including the ones used in the massacre.
Her former sister-in law, Marsha Lanza, told the Chicago Sun-Times outside her home in Crystal Lake, Ill., that Nancy Lanza wanted guns for protection. “She prepared for the worst,” Marsha Lanza told the newspaper. “I didn’t know that they [the guns] would be used on her.”
Members of Nancy Lanza’s regular neighborhood dice game never got inside her home, either — not in 15 years of regular games. Rhonda Collens, a frequent player in the game, said that while the group’s weekly get-togethers moved from house to house, Nancy Lanza’s was always skipped. She never met Adam Lanza, and Nancy never spoke of her children. Adam has an older brother, Ryan Lanza, who lives in New Jersey and works for the accounting firm Ernst & Young.
Asked about Nancy Lanza’s guns, Collens said, “I had no idea she liked that stuff,” adding, “she was a nice lady, very pleasant.”
Adam Lanza’s acquaintances continued coming forward with what they knew about a young man who to many seemed unknowable. They described him as a loner, shy, brilliant, interested in gaming and computers, though seemingly without a digital footprint on social networks. It was not known whether he had a job.
Kate Leen, 21, attended seventh and eighth grade with Lanza and remembers him as very shy.
“You would say ‘hi,’ and he would say ‘hi’ back, but he didn’t give you a lot to work with,” said Leen, who now attends Hofstra University in New York.
In high school he dressed in khaki shorts and pants and wore oversize button-down shirts. He carried a briefcase instead of a backpack.
“He wasn’t exactly extra welcoming,” Leen said.
Marsha Moskowitz, his middle-school bus driver, didn’t remember Adam Lanza having any friends on the bus. “He was very, very quiet, reserved, shy, kept to himself,” she said. “He’d say hello and goodbye, and that was about it.”
Although private, the family wasn’t isolated.
Acquaintances recall that Nancy Lanza was a regular presence at My Place, the town watering hole and eatery. She liked craft beers, Holmes said.
“I guess now we’ll all be looking a little bit closer at things,” Holmes said, “though she seemed a normal, everyday lady.”
Rosenwald reported from Washington. Eli Saslow, Jennifer Jenkins and Alice Crites contributed to this report.
Mary
Obviously Jared Lee Loughner viewed U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords as part of a tyranical government that he had the 'right' to dispose of. Was he within his rights to do this? If so, why is he is prison? If not, then the individual does not have the right to bear arms to 'dispose of tyrants'.
Do you or anyone in their right mind think Representative Gabrielle Giffords was part of a tyranical government? That's why he's in prison.
Edited to add: It was a citizen with a gun that stopped that dirtball from killing even more people.
