FINALLY! Can you prove God exists? If you can I won't ask again!

by punkofnice 544 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • James Brown
    James Brown

    Entirely possible.

    Blow it out your ignorant azz.

  • EntirelyPossible

    Entirely possible. Blow it out your ignorant azz.

    Well that seems mildly off topic. Was that supposed to be clever? Witty? An explanation of vestigial telomeres? A commentary on what you dream about every night?

  • cantleave

    James Brown to confound your obviously anecdotal "evidence"

  • punkofnice

    As far as morals are concerned I don't see how the bible is of any use. It seems weird to need an old book of fables and hatred to be moral.

    What about non xtian countries where they are still moral?

  • punkofnice

    Seems like a good opportunity to bump this thread and re-introduce this topic.........

  • Phizzy

    Yea Good One Punky my boy ! 20 pages and the believers came up with two things, not much and sod-all.

  • punkofnice

    Phizzy - Yes my good fellow. There was a time I needed to prove god existed to myself as I needed to maintain that fuzzy feeling of a superior being having my back.......I failed. God failed me. I therefore conclude if he exists he's indifferent and/or psychotic. My money is on god's non existance.

    It seems those that believe cannot scrutinize their own reasons for belief as this is dangerous for them. They go along with the rest of the crowd. It looks like a massive form of bandwaggoning.

    I was asked the other day: 'If god doesn't exist then what's the meaning of life?'

    My answer: 'Just because we want there to be a meaning doesn't mean there is or has to be a meaning!'

    Belief in god really is a delusion from what I observe from the things the believers say.

  • rawe

    Hi PunkOfNice,

    "If god doesn't exist then what's the meaning of life?"

    Before I add to this thread, others here may be interested to know PunkOfNice and I know each other from the Ex-Jehovah's Witness Forum and Recovery site on

    I self-identify as an atheist, but like most in the category would say there may be no way to prove God doesn't exist. I would also say, I do believe God exists within the minds of believers and he can have a set of shared attributes if those believers talk about such things and reach a consensus view.

    What is the meaning of life? Or, as we may have asked a householder: Does life have a purpose? The answer I believe is simple: life has no meaning and no purpose. And that is the problem, our ability to plan with purpose is tied to our survival. Our ability to judge the intent of another mind (animal or human) is tied to our survival. Thus we may not be well equiped to deal with something that has no purpose or meaning.

    Perhaps the most ironic thing that comes up in this debate is the word 'chance', so often used by Witnesses. At the most fundemental level it does seem there is an essential randomness at the subatomic level. But we should not let that confuse us into believing the physical systems are primarily driven by chance. In fact the laws of nature as so well defined that concrete predictions can be made. The simple act of watching a weather report shows how this works. Thus the example of the evolution of the eye is not a question of chance. In fact the physical limits on what would work at at biological level for radiation sensor the eyes are, is so narrow only a couple different patterns appear in nature.

    But... the ultimate definition of chance and randomness is... God! If a superbeing exists and interacts in a capricious manner with our world, then an amazing thing happens to knowledge. It doesn't become a question of if one can know if God exists or not, it becomes a question of can one know anything at all? And that's the kicker. We can know the world only to the extent we understand the laws of nature and only to the extent that such laws are not violated. If we have to also account for a random capricious law breaker, then we can't really know anything, not even in principal.



  • tec

    I don't remember everything in this thread, but I will try not to repeat myself.

    One person cannot prove to another person that there is God. That sort of imperical proof that non-beleivers are asking for. Because you cannot prove the spiritual with tools meant to measure the physical. You have to use different tools. For some, unless something is scientifically approved and proven, it does not exist... or it is a question mark. I can respect the latter. I think the former comes from fear. Fear of being wrong, or of taking a chance, and so going no further than what has been scientifically proven. Thankfully, science itself has more of an 'open mind' than that, lol.

    It seems those that believe cannot scrutinize their own reasons for belief as this is dangerous for them. They go along with the rest of the crowd. It looks like a massive form of bandwaggoning.

    Some do. But this is a major generalization. I have scruitinized my belief and my faith. The problem, I think, comes when some think that the believer does not scrutinize, but in reality, that scrutiny has already been done. Confidence and/in faith come from already having done so. From already having faced all those questions that atheists or science or philosophers, etc, ask; and understanding the answers. I have had doubts in the past. I have faced and explored them. So that while I could set my faith aside... as in ignore/avoid what I know to be real and true... I could not honestly deny Christ or God.

    Christ has always been my lifeline. Doubts that I have ever had, have always brought me back to Him. Originally mainly from what He taught; now from what He teaches and speaks. (present tense) I do not believe He is real. I know that He is. I cannot prove that to you or anyone else. I can only give my witness, and answer what questions others ask me about my witness, and point to the One who is the proof/image of God.

    Some people have no faith because they see no evidence for God. But other people lose faith, or set their faith aside, because they do not like what God is (or is not) doing, according to what man has taught them about God. So usually, it is in a false god that they have lost their faith.



  • EntirelyPossible

    So usually, it is in a false god that they have lost their faith.

    Oh look, you've found yet another way to feel superior to people that don't listen to invisible friends....

Share this