Were you or someone you know sexually molested by a Jehovah's Witness ?

by flipper 381 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

• 

  Simon

  It's disappointing how people have reacted on this forum to Reniaa in general. If this was the first incident of reaction to her then maybe it would carry more weight but poeople have been 'crying wolf' over her for so long now and we have had to deal with SO much intollerance and outright abuse directed towards her that it tends to lose it's weight - especially when it is unwarranted (i.e. simply because someone defends the WTS doctrines).

  I can appreciate why some people have reacted how they have on this particular topic but we don't have mob-rule here and people are not deleted for holding an opinion - particularly when most people have probably been at that belief stage themselves at some point in the past.

  It doesn't seem to me that she is saying that abuse within the WTS does not exist, just that Silentlambs puts too much focus on trying to "bring down the WTS" instead of helping the victims. Personally, I think this is a valid crticism of Bill Bowen and there have been clear examples of this in the past e.g. taking advantage of an unstable & terminally ill woman like Pat Garza to make baseless accusations purely for public spectacle - wasn't that a prime example? He's also interfered with support forums dedicated to helping victims as well ... I can't imagine why. I personally do not trust the man AT ALL based on my own dealings with him and some of the stunts he's pulled.

  The organisation itself I'm sure does a lot of good but could probably have done some thing better along the way.

  There are some raw emotions on this topic and I think people should step back and take a deep breath before jumping to react and clamouring for someone to be deleted just because they have a viewpoint that you don't like.

  I don't like how some things have been done and how some victims of the WTS have been taken advantage of to promote an anti-WTS agenda that probably isn't helpful for them personally. Me saying that doesn't mean I don't support the victims - if anything it means I care more about the victims than my own desire to see the WTS damaged.

  So c'mon people ... out with it: is it more important that victims are cared for or that their victimisation is exposed in order to damage the WTS?
• 

  OUTLAW

  Good Question Simon..

  I know you took some hits from Bowen.....Because.. You would not go along with everything he wanted from you..

  That pissed me off..

  In answer to your Question..

  Exposing the Victimisation is going to damage the WBT$,as a matter of course..It will simply go that way..

  "Using" victims to damage the WBT$ is repulsive.....Bowen wanted you to cross that line.....You did the right thing..

  .....................OUTLAW
• 

  reniaa

  Thank you Simon

  you have put better what I was trying to say than I could and did..

  I will stand by my not posting for at least a while but I did want to say thank you. I value your opinion.

  I think a break for me and those I seem to stir up will do us good.

  Cheers Simon.

  Reniaa
• 

  Mickey mouse

  So c'mon people ... out with it: is it more important that victims are cared for or that their victimisation is exposed in order to damage the WTS?

  I would rephrase that question to: Is it more important that past victims are cared for or that people are alerted to the dangerous policies of the WBTS to prevent future cases and further victims suffering?

  You make some valid points Simon and I'm glad that Reniaa has not been banned. I often found personal comments directed AT Reniaa as distasteful as her heartless disregard of the suffering of WT victims.

  I hope this episode does not prevent more WT apologists from joining. This thread is a good example of the fact that people on this forum are capable of interacting with witnesses, even those who make personal attacks.

  I guess with Reniaa people just got weary of it.
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Hey there Simon.

  I agree with you that Reinaa has brought out on certain threads a lot of overly emotional responses because she simply defends the WTBTS in simple terms. Her style IS a bit disconcerting. I think there are better ways to deal with her then what has been displayed at times.

  I will take everyone's word for it about Bowen. I don't know anything about him other then his silent lambs website. It doesn't surprise me; just because his cause is good and just doesn't mean he doesn't have his faults.

  Plus, as I said earlier on this, this isn't my board, and I have already expressed my thoughts on the matter. I appreciate being able to do so.

  If I might reiterate one point that seems important to me, it is this: There are clever ways to get former Jehovah's Witnesses riled up. I will be the first to admit that as a group, at times, we former JW's can be a bit raw emotionally, and even unfair simply because of our disgust at what we have learned about the Governing Body and their practices. It can also invite those who seem to like to push buttons over to stir things up.

  It is one thing to argue JW dogma. I always felt that Reinaa, even if her arguments and logic were totally lacking, should be able to pop in on any thread she wanted and parrot the GB corporate line.

  In this particular instance, though, the tone and intent were the same, and it is a different matter in my view, when people and victims are being marginalized as part of any one persons effort to defend a group. In this particular case, I don't think there was an over reaction. She got what was coming to her this time.

  If she is not banned and not considered a troll by the Mods, thats cool with me. This is the internet, and while I hope I don't sound too preachy by saying this, we need to keep what happens on this forum in perspective, even if we do spend a great deal of time here. This thread has highlighted in very real terms not only the damage and raw emotions caused by the JW attitudes toward pedophiles, but we even have a real example of a brainwashed JW apologist saying that those who attack JW's because of the pedophiles have been unfair.

  Unlike what would have happened in a congregation, this time, the JW (Reinaa) and the JW point of view was exposed, and rightful, pent up anger expressed, something that can't be done currently in a congregation.

  If all's fair in love and war, then this thread speaks to a great deal, and I for one am happy to have participated in the discussion. The biggest thing is that the victims of pedophiles in JW's get the help they need, and all of us can continue to the best of our ability to provide that in one form or another.
• 

  DJK

  "So c'mon people ... out with it: is it more important that victims are cared for or that their victimisation is exposed in order to damage the WTS?"

  I agree it is more important that the victims are cared for. But, if we focus on only that, then how do furthur victimisations stop? I don't care if the WTS is damaged and I don't think they can be. I want the WTS to change the way they handle this issue. The way they handle it now, IMO, is nothing less than criminal culpabilty, resulting in more victims.

  DJK
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  So c'mon people ... out with it: is it more important that victims are cared for or that their victimisation is exposed in order to damage the WTS?

  I don't think that individual victims should be further exposed (exploited) to damage the WTS.
  I do understand that most of us don't do as Rick Fearon does and picket the JW Memorial.
  Most of us do not put letters on windshields at the DC.

  When we talk of taking down the tower, it is our venting of frustrations, ALL WORDS AND LITTLE ACTION.
  
  So I think a little slack is necessary.

  Is Silent Lambs a bit more about taking down the tower than aiding victims of abuse? Possibly.
  But there is other help in other organizations for them. Silent Lambs can learn from SNAP. http://www.snapnetwork.org/

  That doesn't make Silent Lambs wrong. It's just not the organization you or I would want it to be.
  CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE is not the book I would write- very middle of the road. But it's done more to free more people from WTS than any other book, so who am I to say I would have done differently. I like Randy's freeminds.org for it's exposure of the real truth.
  A victim doesn't have to out themselves on any of these sites, so they are there for them if they need them. Silent Lambs does let them know they are not alone.

  JWN does that too. It lets any kind of victims know that we are not alone. But then we get to talking and wishful thinking. We might get a bit strong in our desire to take down the tower. We might focus on things differently than others. It's just talk and writing. I am just as guilty as the next person, but some people take things said here way too seriously- on both sides. It's just talk and writing.
• 

  OUTLAW

  Reniaa..You can belly ache all you want on other forums about JWN.....And..Tell everyone your taking a break,because everyone is just so mean here..

  It`s more attention for you..LOL!!......

  Next time you want to tell everyone how intolerant JWN is..

  Remember how often people have stuck up for you,when things have gone too far..

  Remember all the things you have been allowed to say,when you claim there is no freedom of speach here..

  Remember the people you have hurt,when you cry victim..

  Remember that Simon,Angharad and the Mods have always kept the door open for you on JWD/JWN..

  ......................OUTLAW
• 

  caliber

  It doesn't seem to me that she is saying that abuse within the WTS does not exist, just that Silentlambs puts too much focus on trying to "bring down the WTS" instead of helping the victims

  The topic was ..Were you or someone you know sexually molested by a Jehovah's Witness ?

  All of us I am sure go off topic at times but when you do it as a rule not an exception I believe the entire purpose

  is revealed as deliberately" creating distraction "which in turn marginalizes the main issue .. in this case sexual abuse

  by a JW

  If we want to talk about" focus "I believe Reniaa is(was) poorest example on the board with her" lack of focus" on the current topic..

  a" lack of focus" with intent to create a decoy.

  A decoy is usually a person, device or event meant as a distraction to conceal what an individual or a group might be looking for. Decoys have been used for centuries most notably in game hunting, but also in wartime and in the committing or resolving of crimes. Decoys are usually used in police movies. A good example is the movie The January Man from 1989 where the mayors daughter is used as a decoy to catch a strangler in New York.

  An inflatable dummy tank, modeled after the M4 Sherman, used in the 1944 "Operation Fortitude" with the aim of misleading Nazi Germany about D-Day.
• 

  flipper

  SIMON- I feel it is important for victims of child abuse to be helped yes indeed and cared for . To me it's hard to not do that without exposing the faulty policies of the WT society in how they allow pedophiles to continue abusing children and getting away with it. The fact alone that the WT societies policies instruct elders to FIRST and FOREMOST notify the WT legal department before EVER going to police about child abuse incidences indicates that the WT society is a HIGH CONTROL organization which hinders criminal investigations into the abhorrent conduct of it's members .

  So the point I'm making is it's not a question of this OR that. Not a question of helping child abuse victims OR hurting the WT society. It's a question of the WT society practicing " information control " on members and media so that the victims of child abuse DO NOT receive proper help from authorities. Since the WT society controls it's members by this Gestapo type method - it will be a natural chain of events that the Wt society will be exposed as that is the only way to prevent future child abuse