by RebelliousSpirit 278 Replies latest members private
Sorry, I'm having "one of those days".
Good, because you are not the bad guy here. No need to be sorry.
Have you ever heard the accusation that JWs break up families? And have you heard JWs defend that by quoting their stance on divorce, and morality? "We do not break up families... we teach people how to maintain the family arrangement..." blah blah blah.
What do you think now? Do JWs break up families?
i don't know who siad this but it was someone on this board. it has helped me alot!!
During my life, I have served as an altar boy, layman, attended catholic school my entire life, and also fallen under the spell of evangelists, Pentecostals and of course, the Jehovah?s Witnesses. After intense study, several advanced degrees, and a lot of introspective reflection, I have come to finally accept that material produced by fellow humans in the form of literature does not constitute divine authority, nor does any such product verify the existence of any such authority. Thus, we are presented with many famous and infamous human works supposedly written to answer all of life's inquiries, explain the past, predict the future and rectify the present. As humans, we are all partially gullible to the notion of divinity, due in part to our own personal fear of death and the unknown. Once we accept that we cannot prevent death, and we cannot predict the final eventuality after death, and we cannot communicate with anyone who might have such power, we are faced with "acceptance and reconciliation". We must move on, moving forward and making our current life positive, acquiring benefits, sharing resources, and achieving goals. A legacy is a noble thing to strive for and leave behind along with loving memories and a good reputation. I believe all holy books make that assertion as well.
Fading is a very hard thing to do. In some respects even harder than being df'ed or da'd. It involves a gradual cessation of activities, while giving them nothing to call you on--other than your lack of activity.
It means biting your tongue everytime a family member invites you to meeting or family study. It means not telling those you love who are deeply involved that their religion is harmful and destructive. Most of all, it requires that you know their rules inside and out, and are willing to either abide by them or manipulate them in such a way that they cannot form a judicial opinion against you.
Even this is not enough in some cases. The judicial decision making process takes place behind closed doors, with absolutely NO checks and balances. So in the end, if they suspect a person is fading, not from discouragement, but from a shift in basic belief, and if they are sufficiently motivated, they will take action regardless of a seemingly successful and/or long-term fade.
My husband and I are faders. We still do not openly participate in certain activities that JWs condemn--not because we agree with them, but because it could cause trouble with our "fade."
RS,
Hello, I was born and raised in the organization. My daughter who turns 20 next month was born and raised in the Organization. Her mother and I split up when she was young. It took me two tries, but I finally got out of the organization about 11 years ago.
One thing I would hope you would think about is your children. Not just the blood issue, but if you raised them in the organization, then someone leaves. The WBTS has laws for this.
Please read this thread about me and my daughter.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/9/74715/1.ashx
I hope you find your way peacefully,
Bryan
Have You Seen My Mother
I have to agree with Odrade, fading can cause a lot of anxiety.....
You continually fight with "who you are and what you believe"...but can never show it because of fear of shunning. So it is like fighting 2 wars, the war within yourself of being your "true self"(serving God by "his rules"), and the war of appearing what JW's want to see, "your eternal loyalty to an organization."
If you are good at being a "spy" or "double agent" or look at it as purely "acting"....you may be albe to live thru the fading process.
I for one have had a lot of anxiety...which increased my depression...and I have been fading for 1.5 years.
It is a lot to think about, weighing your positives with negatives(loosing family) is the ultimate answer for fading.
I sometimes feel there is "no way out"....either way presents challenges and issues. Which way is easier for you?
This is much like the Matrix: Do you want the blue pill or the red pill?
hugs,
CodeBlue
Religion is such a personal choice. No one religion should tell you how you should think, feel, behave or speak. This one does and goes further to punish you for not conforming. It's a sad reality. My ex was out of it, but the pull was too much for him, and he went back at the cost of our family. Unfortunately, I did none of the research you are doing until it was too late. You had doubts, you gave it a shot, you're realizing just how "loving" this organization really is, and for that you are being punished or will be. Your husband and your inlaws WILL feel the pressure.
It's hard to live with knowing YOU cannot have your own way of life without affecting the man and family you love. I don't envy your position, but stay close!! You will have much support here. Hopefully you will find the happy medium you are looking for an at no cost to your or your love.
This site is not doing any damage to you, it is opening your eyes to what the JW's do not want you to see. It is allowing you to come to your own decisions in your life rather than allowing them to dictate how you will live it. They aren't stupid (no really) they know they sit on dangerous ground now with the vast information out there in the cyberworld. The only way they can try to maintain what they have is through threats, bullying and downright hate. It's sad. Don't fall down that rabbit hole.
SK
(((RS)))
You are, I think, in a better position than you know. You are not baptised yet, and that counts for having a great deal of power (relatively speaking!). Your husband LOVES you, and you should tell him how much that commitment means to you. Don't squander that. Your Bible study leaders are trying to please you, and your in-laws are liberal--more human than bOrg. You have a lot going for you, the way I see it!
You don't have to make a HUGE gigantic break, with lots of drama. You don't have to "fade" in the same way that ex-JWs have to. You don't need to sacrifice much here at all, if you are circumspect in your approach.
Because you are a seeker, you are always allowed to ask questions. That privilege stops after baptism. If the answers don't satisfy you, you can just express your doubts. In an odd sense, you can innocently bring your teachers to the point where they begin repeating phrases (Eg: "we'll have to leave it to Jehovah" is an all-purpose euphemism for "this doesn't make much sense, but we have to believe it anyway") because the answers you require will not come... and you stilll can say, at that point, that it isn't enough FOR YOU, even if it is for them. Be politely firm! Insist on integrity. It really works!
BTW, I grew up Catholic too, though I'm now a protestant. I was never a JW. You have a lot of good sense in you. Take the role of the careful, polite critic, because they can't argue with that. In fact, it is their JW duty to answer your questions and objections. So go slow, and point out wherever the difficulties show up. ...I have been able to share documents/information from online with my JW neighbor and other JWs, and they HAD to listen to it, because I explained I could not in good conscience believe without getting convincing answers. You probably won't be doing that much (yet!), but you can at least plant your feet down and refuse to walk further down their path without SOLID Biblical support for the many integral teachings of the WT (someone posted a good list earlier of teachings that are not Biblically supported). Remember, be firm. Say that it doesn't sound right to you even yet; that their answer isn't a good enough argument for you. They may eventually get exasperated and leave you alone after awhile!! And it will die down, and you can quit the meetings.
Use your many advantages, RS!! Relax and remember: be a polite, critical student, and you will be able to navigate thru your JW relationships... and maybe plant a ton of seeds of doubt as well. It's been working that way over here, very slowly, with my JW neighbor. Be slow, be firm.
And always remember...
PR 18:17 The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him.
You never lose the right to ask questions!
((((((HUG))))))
bebu
"I think there is a lot of wisdom in Bebu,s post. The one thing I would like to add is that. You dont have to make a decision just because people tell you that you must. These people would only want you to make the decision they want, not what you want.
Whats the hurry if you could make the situation worse.
Hi Rebel:
I loved what Bebu said......................good words....
Hello, I was born and raised in the organization. My daughter who turns 20 next month was born and raised in the Organization. Her mother and I split up when she was young. It took me two tries, but I finally got out of the organization about 11 years ago.
Your daughter's letter made me so sad Bryan. I'm sorry things happened that way.
I have lived my entire 30 years without my father. My parents divorced when I was 5. Don't get me wrong, my father has always been "around" ... he picked us up for visitation on weekends (because his new wife told him to), he paid child support (though a measly amount compared to his income, and never contributed a dime more than he was required to), he was "around". But, he was never an honest to goodness father to me or my brothers. He was our "buddy" to hang out with - he never dispensed fatherly advice or encouragement. He rarely told me he loved me (never as a child, only recently has he said it once in awhile). I have no idea if he's proud of my accomplishments. And actually (as an example of his shortcomings as a father) he stood by and watched one of my boyfriends beat me up when I was 17 years old and did nothing to stop it, AND he smoked pot and drank alcohol with my then drug addicted little brother when he was a teenager. See my point?
I would have given anything in this world to have a father, a daddy, who made me feel special. I would have given anything to be "daddy's little girl". I am 30 years old now (in a month or so anyway) and while I still talk to my father on occasion, seeing him when I do is painful - he doesn't even really know me, or my children. It makes me very, very sad.
What makes me sadder yet is to see a young woman like your daughter who just "doesn't get it". I would be blessed to have a father who loves me as much as you love your daughter, Bryan. But I don't have that, and she's just throwing it all away. She hasn't got a clue what it feels like to long for a loving father. I have a good relationship with my father-in-law now, he is an exemplary father and grandfather (and a JW elder, sigh) - he pays the price for what my father never gave me though because I honestly don't think my father-in-law ever imagined he'd be SO needed by his 30 year old daughter-in-law. Though he steps up without complaint. I wish he'd been my daddy.
I pray wholeheartedly that your daughter sees the error of her ways. You are DA, and she loves Jehovah - but you are her FATHER and she should love and respect you for all of the blessings you have given to her over the years. Shame on those elders for pushing her to sever her ties with you, and shame on her mother as well. Your daughter is trying to do her best, and I wish her luck in her endeavors. But I truly hope that she returns to her daddy, and I know you'll be awaiting her with open arms.
Thank you for sharing your story. (((Bryan)))
