'scholar':
Accept this challenge.
I'm not particularly swayed by this fallacious appeal to pride either.
Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?
by Godlyman 349 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Jeffro
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Jeffro
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/266146/question-jw-apologists#4877678
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/244258/question-607-apologists#4607460
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/244265/another-question-607-apologists
There's a few questions for the non-scholar to non-answer. đ¤Ł
Bonus question: during what specific range of years were Nebuchadnezzar's alleged 7 years of madness? Hint: it can't be during any period where there are actions attributed to Nebuchadnezzar.
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scholar
Jeffro
Bonus question: during what specific range of years were Nebuchadnezzar's alleged 7 years of madness? Hint: it can't be during any period where there are actions attributed to Nebuchadnezzar.
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Nebuchadnezzer's madness and absence from the throne must have occurred sometime shortly after his 18th year 607 BCE and the beginning of the reign of his eldest son, Evil-Merodach in 580 BCE. Thus, I propose that it occurred during Nebs' 19th-32nd years of his reign which would be 606 BCE -593 BCE. it was during this period according to Josephus that Neb. besieged Tyre and it is most likely that Neb's son Evil 0Merodach or Amel -Marduk reigned in his place during Neb's vacancy..
Now I have a question: Do you accept the historicity of Neb's tree dream described in detail in Dan. 4 including Neb's banishment from his throne for 'seven times' or seven years?
Now, please forward your next question and do not bother me with access to older posts. Just pose the question.
scholar JW
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peacefulpete
Article excerpted from http://www.bibleandscience.com/archaeology/dss.htm
Pre-Daniel Traditions 4Q242 Even before the discovery of the DSS, Wolfram von Soden posited that the stories about Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 3 and 4 were actually stories told about Nabonidus. According to ancient Mesopotamia sources Nabonidus was the father of king Belshazzar, not Nebuchadnezzar as Daniel 5:2 states.
It seems that 4Q242 preserves a tradition that pre-dates the Biblical text of Daniel. It seems that a scribe copying (or redacting) the Book of Daniel changed the name of the lesser known Nabonidus to the better known Nebuchadnezzar who destroyed Jerusalem and the temple.
Non-Biblical Traditions of Daniel 4QPseudo-Daniel (4Q243-244-245) has a different perspective on history which starts in Genesis, but Daniel starts with the exiles. It seems that these fragments reflect a mixture of Enoch and Daniel traditions before the Book of Daniel was written.
4Q246 Aramaic Apocalypse or "Son of God Text" refers to a figure called "Son of God" and "Son of the Most High." This may be background for the Christology of Luke (Luke 1:32,35). This fragment seems to be dependent on Daniel 7 especially verses 14 and 27.
4Q552-553 Four Kingdoms preserves a vision of four trees which represent four kingdoms. One tree is identified with Babylon, and another with Persia. This vision may have developed from the Book of Daniel vision of one tree. Scrolls of the Book of Daniel There are eight copies of the Book of Daniel found in Qumran Caves 1, 4, and 6. They are 1Q71-2, 4Q112-116, and 6Q7pap. The Hebrew and Aramaic sections are preserved. Generally the texts follow the Masoretic tradition, but there are some important differences (See Charlesworth, The Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls, Vol.1, p.161).
Prayer of Nabonidus 4Q242
[1] Words of the prayer, said by Nabonidus, king of Babylonia, [the great] king, [when afflicted]
[2] with an ulcer on command of the most high God in Tayma:
["I, Nabonidus,] was afflicted [with an evil ulcer]
[3] for seven years, and far from [men] I [was driven, until I prayed to the most high God.] And
[4] an exorcist pardoned my sins. He was a Jew from [among the children of the exile of Judah, and said:]
[5] "Recount this in writing to glorify and exalt the name of [the most high God."Then I wrote this:] "When
[67] I was afflicted for seven years [by the most high God] with an evil ulcer during my stay at Tayma,
[7] I prayed [to] the gods of silver and gold, [bronze and iron,] wood, stone and lime,{{It is interesting to notice that the line "have praised the gods of silver and gold, bronze and iron,
[8] wood and stone"
[the end is missing]
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BruceX
scholar:
The trip back took at least 4 months.
Would you agree that it's reasonable to assume that the trip from Jerusalem to Babylon was at least 2 months?
And that they left the city of Jerusalem in the month of Tishri in 607, which would be around SeptemberâOctober in 607 BCE?
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Jeffro
âscholarâ:
Nebuchadnezzer's madness and absence from the throne must have occurred sometime shortly after his 18th year 607 BCE and the beginning of the reign of his eldest son, Evil-Merodach in 580 BCE. Thus, I propose that it occurred during Nebs' 19th-32nd years of his reign which would be 606 BCE -593 BCE. it was during this period according to Josephus that Neb. besieged Tyre and it is most likely that Neb's son Evil 0Merodach or Amel -Marduk reigned in his place during Neb's vacancy..
ââMust have occurredâ ⌠âit is most likelyâ ⌠so Iâm marking that as a fail because it is just speculation with no evidence and you didnât specify a period of 7 years. Additionally, placement of this seven years inside the supposed âgreater fulfilmentâ Is contrary to the alleged significance of the latter.
Now I have a question: Do you accept the historicity of Neb's tree dream described in detail in Dan. 4 including Neb's banishment from his throne for 'seven times' or seven years?
đ Of course not. The tale borrows elements from a story about Nabonidus, and there is no evidence whatsoever that any such event occurred. Desperate to find support, apologists occasionally cite an obscure claim that Nebuchadnezzar âmade strange decreesâ as âevidenceâ, but this bears no similarity to him going off to live in the wild. Honest readers can read further at Seven Times and The Watch Tower Societyâs 2014 attempt to defend 1914.
Now, please forward your next question and do not bother me with access to older posts. Just pose the question.
You bore me. Your non-answers are predictable and I see no point in expending further effort. I already posted links to previous questions and you couldnât be bothered following those. There is nothing to learn from you on this subject and the only point of sending you questions you canât answer is to watch you flounder. The worst part is that you imagine your non-answers are valid responses, so in the end you learn nothing. It is of some benefit to onlookers though so maybe another time. -
scholar
Jeffro
âMust have occurredâ ⌠âit is most likelyâ ⌠so Iâm marking that as a fail because it is just speculation with no evidence and you didnât specify a period of 7 years. Additionally, placement of this seven years inside the supposed âgreater fulfilmentâ Is contrary to the alleged significance of the latter.
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The historical details pertaining to the tree vision and the precise timing of the seven times or years pertaining to Neb are not given in the narrative so don't blame me but sort it out with One who gave the dream in the first place for it is not my problem.I have answered your question and I do not expect you to agree with my answer.
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Of course not. The tale borrows elements from a story about Nabonidus, and there is no evidence whatsoever that any such event occurred. Desperate to find support, apologists occasionally cite an obscure claim that Nebuchadnezzar âmade strange decreesâ as âevidenceâ, but this bears no similarity to him going off to live in the wild. Honest readers can read further at Seven Times and The Watch Tower Societyâs 2014 attempt to defend 1914.
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I knew that so if that is the case then everything to do with Bible Chronology or Bible History can be discarded simply on the basis that you can pick and choose what facts or other information to accept or recognize . You may as well say that the whole concept of the 70 years is a myth and has nothing to do with Chronology or Jewish History just as you easily brush aside or ignore the Exile.
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You bore me. Your non-answers are predictable and I see no point in expending further effort. I already posted links to previous questions and you couldnât be bothered following those. There is nothing to learn from you on this subject and the only point of sending you questions you canât answer is to watch you flounder. The worst part is that you imagine your non-answers are valid responses, so in the end you learn nothing. It is of some benefit to onlookers though so maybe another time.
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You also bore me with your stupidity, lack of scholarship and plain common sense. I have answered your question and now you complain like a girl. As one actor said: "Stop being a girlie man".
Until next time!
scholar JW
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scholar
Bruce X
Would you agree that it's reasonable to assume that the trip from Jerusalem to Babylon was at least 2 months?
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The historical account does not say how long the trek took but 4 months would be most likely.
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And that they left the city of Jerusalem in the month of Tishri in 607, which would be around SeptemberâOctober in 607 BCE?
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In order to fulfill Jeremiah's prophecy and later confirmed by Ezra, the land had to be vacated by the seventh month in 607 BCE which began the 70 years of Exile- Servitude and Desolation.
scholar JW
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Jeffro
âscholarâ:
I have answered your question and now you complain like a girl.
Heâs sexist too. đ¤ˇââď¸ Hardly a surprise from someone in a sexist organisation.
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Jeffro
âscholarâ:
In order to fulfill Jeremiah's prophecy and later confirmed by Ezra, the land had to be vacated by the seventh month in 607 BCE which began the 70 years of Exile- Servitude and Desolation.
This goes back to one of the questions already asked in this thread that âscholarâ wonât (canât) answer. If 70 years ended when the Jews arrived in Jerusalem, in what way was attention subsequently given to their return?