Question for JW apologists...

by Jeffro 38 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Jeffro

  The new New World Translation translates Jeremiah 29:10 as follows:

  10 “For this is what Jehovah says, ‘When 70 years at Babylon are fulfilled, I will turn my attention to you, and I will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place.’

  The official Watch Tower Society teaching is that by the end of the 70 years, the Jews were back in Judea, and that their actual arrival in Judea marks the end of the "70 years". For example:

  *** si p. 85 par. 3 Bible Book Number 15—Ezra ***
  A faithful remnant journeyed back to Jerusalem in time to set up the altar and offer the first sacrifices in “the seventh month” (Tishri, corresponding to September-October) of the year 537 B.C.E.—70 years to the month after Judah and Jerusalem’s desolation by Nebuchadnezzar.

  *** it-1 p. 463 Chronology ***
  Hence the count of the 70 years of desolation must have begun about October 1, 607 B.C.E., ending in 537 B.C.E. It was in the seventh month of this latter year that the first repatriated Jews arrived back in Judah, exactly 70 years from the start of the full desolation of the land.

  *** w11 12/15 p. 31 Do You Remember? ***
  The Jews were released, and they arrived in their homeland by 537 B.C.E. The Bible says that their exile was 70 years long. So Jerusalem must have fallen in 607 B.C.E.

  That being the case, if the Jews were already home when the 70 years ended, in what manner would Jehovah "make good my promise by bringing you back to this place" after they were already there?
• 

  Jeffro

  A forum member who wants to pretend he's no longer on this forum has been responding (poorly) to this thread via PMs, and most recently claimed that '70 years' can be seen "both ways", apparently meaning that the 70 years can be counted with or without travelling time.

  That is, of course, illogical, because in the JW belief, the 70 years includes the travel from Judea to Babylon (supposedly starting in October 607) and from Babylon to Judea (supposedly ending in October 537).

  Apart from indicating that the person does not have a good grasp on logic, this also demonstrates well that the JW interpretation doesn't even allow for "70 years at Babylon". Since the Bible elsewhere suggests that such a trip can take about 4 months, and the 70 years (in the JW interpretation) purportedly includes two such journeys, the period "at Babylon" was about 69 years and 4 months.

  Perhaps the new NWT should include some annotations for the verse:

  10 “For this is what Jehovah says, ‘When 70 years at Babylon (actually 4 months of travelling to Babylon plus 69.3 years at Babylon plus 4 months of travelling to Judea) are fulfilled, I will turn my attention to you, and I will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place (even though you'll already be back here).’
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  Julia Orwell

  Tumbleweed blows through...no one can refute your logic bro.
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  notsurewheretogo

  What is good about this thread and this point is though that whilst the whole 607 BCE and 70 years is a massive topic there in a nutshell in one ot two paragraphs it is refuted...
• 

  Phizzy

  "The Bible says that their exile was 70 years long". W11 12/15 p31

  Jeremiah 29v10 has been dealt with at length on JWN, and says nothing of the sort in proper Translations or in the manuscripts in the original tongue.

  So, 607/JW Apologists, where exactly does the Bible spell this out ? (Answer that after answering Jeffro's Q above, please).
• 

  AnnOMaly

  The biggest problem with the WTS's translation, "When 70 years at Babylon are fulfilled" is that this statement was addressed to the exiles taken with King Jehioachin in 617 BCE (WT time). 617 - 537 is ... what? How many years would they really have been exiled 'at Babylon'?

  Given that some revised Scandanavian NWTs now have 'for' rather than 'at,' I'm amazed the RNWT hasn't also mopped up this error.
• 

  Comatose

  So the borgs interpretation of these prophecies and the NWT rendering makes god a liar. As there was not 70 years at Babylon in their teaching.

  This will not go unnoticed by them. They will put out a WT with a really twisted reasoning to explain this away.
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  Splash

  "What Jeremiah evidently meant, was that the return to Jerusalem would be during the 70th year of exile."

  Splash
• 

  Jeffro

  AnnOMaly:

  The biggest problem with the WTS's translation, "When 70 years at Babylon are fulfilled" is that this statement was addressed to the exiles taken with King Jehioachin in 617 BCE (WT time).

  Of course. But here I wanted to focus on the problems with their own interpretation of this verse in isolation with respect to the new translation.

  Comatose:

  They will put out a WT with a really twisted reasoning to explain this away.

  The thing is, that's why the old NWT said "In accord with" the end of the 70 years. That way, there was at least some 'wiggle room' for saying it 'really' meant "when the 70 years are nearly over". But now, they've made it really really obvious that their interpretation is just wrong. This makes me more convinced than ever that the Watch Tower Society occasionally does these incredibly stupid things deliberately in order to reduce the number of thinking people in their ranks.

  As I said a year ago in relation to the Sparlock video:

  But aside from that, I've had a theory (just a theory) for a little while about some of the things published recently by the Watch Tower Society - 'Selma and Steve', attitude toward those who leave, and now the Sparlock DVD. It seems to me that the Society might put out some of these unfavourable messages to deliberately shed some members, hanging on to the hard-core JWs and letting go of some of the 'fringe-dwellers' who consume literature for very little return to the Society. That is, those who are less likely to accept everything, more likely to do independent research, less likely to distribute literature, and, most importantly, less likely to donate.
• 

  Jeffro

  Splash:

  "What Jeremiah evidently meant, was that the return to Jerusalem would be during the 70th year of exile."

  I take it from the quote marks and the very JW-ish use of the word "evidently" that you're being facetious.