by Godlyman 349 Replies latest watchtower bible
Bruce X
We know that the return trip took 4 months. So both trips must have taken more than 4 months, therefore 4 months is not possible for the round trip as you suggested as a possibility. I tried to be very conservative and suggested 6 months round trip but it's very likely it took longer than 6 months.
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Whatever!!!
scholar JW
Jeffro
Ok Furuli… um… I mean… ‘scholar’ 😂
That excuse is of course wrong. It’s dative and if it were locative, the exiles aren’t specified as the subject of the sentence anyway.
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It is in the dative case as per the LXX. The phrase 'at Babylon' in English has locative sense i.e. indicating a location or place.
scholar JW
Bruce X
'm trying to find common ground with "scholar" on a lower bound for the round trip. Upper bound, who know
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Unfortunately, it is a floating common ground.
scholar JW
scholar:
You said that "at" in the verse "When 70 years at Babylon are fulfilled" has a locative meaning in the sense of place or location and is similar to 'in Babylon'. So 70 years in Babylon.
You said that the land was vacated by the seventh month in 607 BCE .
And we have a round trip between Juda and Babylon of at least 6 months.
So seventh month of 607 BCE + 70 years in Babylon + 6 months round trip, in which year and month did they return when you add this up? Definitely not the month of Tishri in 537 BCE.
Bruce X
So seventh month of 607 BCE + 70 years in Babylon + 6 months round trip, in which year and month did they return when you add this up? Definitely not the month of Tishri in 537 BCE.-
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We can only what the biblical texts in relation to the 70 years state and that is that the full number of 70 years had to fulfil which included the land keeping its sabbaths. The Exiles arrived home to their cities before the end of the seventy years which was the beginning of the seventh month,-Ezra 2:70 ,Tishri 537 BCE and that occasion was marked by the building of the altar-Ezra 3:3 Thus the Exiles had returned home and the 70 years was fulfilled right on time to the very month or day. Jehovah God is the Great Timekeeper he ensured that his Word was completely fulfilled from his standpoint and not from a human standpoint .
scholar JW
'scholar':
However, supporters of 538 BCE for the Return such as Jeffro, vale Alan F- May he rest in peace, Jonsson and others must have envisaged a 'Babylonian Highway (B1) from Babylon to Jerusalem complete with a mass transportation system such as rail, road or plane to make the return in such an impossible timeframe.
Nope. Yet another lie from the non-scholar. 4 months fits perfectly for the journey, though up to 6 months is possible depending on how early the 'decree' was made.
(In reality, Cyrus didn't make a unique decree just for the Jews, but had a general practice of allowing exiled peoples to return to their homelands to quell civil unrest, for the same reason that he attributed his capture of Babylon to their god Marduk. Because of Cyrus' reputation, it is possible - but not required - that such a release could have been anticipated even earlier than Cyrus' official accession in Nisan of 538.)
Fisherman:
Everything considered, wt interpretation based on 70 years ( FDS appointed circa 1919) has not been been debunked, ( if one is looking for relevancy of this subtopic ). We know that the FDS is not Judaism or Islam or other religions, it needs to be Christianity and since the churches of christendom failed to stop JW as hard as they tried, that eliminates christendom. 7x, 1914,1919, appointment of fds depends on 70 so that proves relevance.
Apart from the 'faithful slave' being from a Christian parable (rather than applying to some other religion), everything else you said here is nonsense. JWs are just another minor fringe Adventist Protestant denomination, rather than the uniquely hated group of global significance that you seem to imagine. The Bible Students' claim that the 'great tribulation' would break out suddenly in October of 1914 was entirely wrong (and Russell didn't believe that Satan was cast down to earth in 1914 or any other year). In the early 20th century, Russell said that if a European war were to break out, as had been expected since the late 19th century, that it wouldn't be the 'end' that they were expecting. Instead Russel expected a social upheaval rather than a world war to initiate the 'great tribulation'. Every aspect about what the Bible Students expected to happen in 1914 was wrong, but in their delusional pride they latched on to the wrong event in the wrong month and ran with it. See also 'sunk cost fallacy'.
scholar:
Got you, so you can't explain it. And certain NWT verses like "When 70 years at Babylon are fulfilled" and Ezra where it shows that the trip back was about 4 months can be ignored.
I have another question.
'scholar':
The phrase 'at Babylon' in English has locative sense i.e. indicating a location or place.
🤣 Yes, if you change the meaning of something expressed in a different language, then the thing you changed means something different to the original. Well done you. 🤦♂️It's remarkably odd that you think this supports your position.
Yes, if you change the meaning of something expressed in a different language, then the thing you changed means something different to the original. Well done you. 🤦♂️It's remarkably odd that you think this supports your position.
There are NWT translation in at least 2 different languages where they say "for Babylon".
