‘scholar’:
Scholar just cannot help himself
More true than he realises 🤦♂️
Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?
by Godlyman 349 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Jeffro
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punkofnice
ozzie - Should we re-name this thread?
Much ado about nothing.
Again, the religious types are arguing about their interpretation of a book of myths, fairy tales and nonsense as if it is real and has relevance in real life. It's all a momentous waste of time.
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peacefulpete
Jeffro......IMO the point in discussion is whether a precise start and end date are required. I'm suggesting, as do many commentators, the 70 year motif was flexible and simply implied a lifetime of disfavor. With this perspective, knocking yourself out proposing dozens of dates, as countless literalists have done, is tilting at windmills. There would be no issue allowing that simpler explanation if it were not for the WT's pathological need for secret hidden chronology that uses a specific date to start its convoluted eisegetical take on Dan 4.
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peacefulpete
It's all a momentous waste of time.
The only reason to pursue this question is to deconstruct the WT's chronology for those who may still be impressed with their "calculations". The house of cards chronology is foundational to their claim to be "The" FDS.
There I brought it back on topic.
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TonusOH
Making it a symbolic number could end up working for the WTS, seeing as the 1914 date is becoming something of an albatross. And based on their concept of "new light" (which involves them getting things wrong --by god's design!-- before getting them right... for now) they could claim that they were mislead into providing a critical date to show that they have Jehovah's favor (what? It could happen!), and now they have the requisite divine clarification to demonstrate that they're ready to lead the faithful into the next phase of God's Great and Convoluted Plan.
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punkofnice
tonus - Making it a symbolic number could end up working for the WTS
Watch out for 'new light(tm)' because we know the WBT$ spies read things on this forum.
Not TOMO the
drunk3rd though; he won't be able to read anything with blurred, double vision. I imagine he'd be flat out on the floor, slurring his words and stinking of booze and sick.I wonder if the JW spies can confirm that one of Christ's brothers(tm) an irredeemable alcoholic? Oh, my. Tony won't get to heaven, will he?!
Next Washtowel will be about not insinuating there is anything wrong with the Governing Body(tm).
Now, where was I? Ah, yes, the F&DS row.
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waton
the 1914 date is becoming something of an albatross.
Tonusoh: : revealing, the Albatross flies around the southern world without flapping a wing
long distance masters, just as wt, from 1914 to 2075. and
God can not lie, or err, even through F&DS spokesmen, Deuteronomy 18 was written to make that clear. Wt has 1914 wrong, the world did not end, they did not come alive in heaven.
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Jeffro
peacefulpete:
IMO the point in discussion is whether a precise start and end date are required.
Sure. But the plain reading of the texts are compatible with specific periods in a manner that is entirely mundane. punkofnice said that he regards the whole Bible as ‘fairy tales’ (a fallacy of composition). In reality, the Bible includes some history (albeit biased and placed in a theological context) in addition to other parts that are not historical.
For example, Babylon is known to have been conquered in 539 BCE. It is also known that Assyria disappears from history after it was conquered by Babylon at Harran in 609 BCE. That is an entirely reasonable reckoning of ‘Babylon’s 70 years’. And we know these texts were heavily edited after the original writing, so it is unremarkable that this could be worked into Jeremiah’s text at the close of the exile.
Similarly, the direct reading of the period in Zechariah specifically refers to 70 years of fasts by the time of Darius’ 4th year, which is precisely consistent with those fasts beginning in 587BCE.
No abstruse symbolism, no changing or ignoring parts of the text to make up what the author ‘really’ meant, no appeals to magical thinking.
But even if they are just intended as symbolic or as approximations (that just happen to match up with known events), it still isn’t a period of exile, and JWs are still entirely wrong. Including all of their claims about the FDS which are contingent on 607 being correct.
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scholar
Jeffro
It is no wonder to refuse to provide a specific chronology for Zechariah's 70 years of indignation/denunciation as your website's explanation on the foreclosed is unclear to any readerr even with thaid of your pretty chart featured in the middle of the explanation. It is much the same with Jonsson's explanation which you have either directly or indirectly copied. Further, your explanation fails to cite any scholarship unlike Jonsson's explanation of these two passages.
WT scholars interpret these two verses as the Exilic Period of Jeremiah's 70 years beginning with the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple in 607 BCE to the Return of the Exiles in 537 BCE. Zechariah receives two oracles dated in Darius' 2nd and 4th years which shows that the Jews were still fasting and mourning lamenting the past fact of the Exile. The texts clearly show that 'these 70 years' or 'those 70 years' had expired and were not 70 years of Temple rebuilding as you and Jonsson claim.
The Temple was finished in 515 BCE- 6th Darius's year and the Temple was destroyed according to your thesis in 587BCE which gives a figure of 72 years and not 70 years. Clearly, you cannot provide a chronology for Zechariah's 70 years of denunciation and as this period is presented in the past tense and having already expired in both the 2nd and 4 th year of Darius it must represent an historic period and the only 70 years that would match all of the attendant facts is that of the biblical 70 years of Exile.
Go figure and use some plain common sense!!!
scholar JW
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