Black Lives Matter—Do You Agree With Their Philosophy?

by minimus 246 Replies latest jw friends

  • phoenixrising

    If these useful idiots really cared about black lives they would be marching to change the rot in black culture. From rap [not music] that calls women bitches and hoes to glorifying drugs and crime to the blaming a gun or the police for the rot and crime that runs rampant in their culture and communities. There are hundreds of shootings every week in black communities that are B on B and nothing is said about the real cause. My gun can sit on my night stand for a year and it will not hurt anyone. So its not a tool its the culture of black society that is to blame. But they will as usual not take responsibility for their actions or support of this rot.

    They will blame and spew some BS that its racism or slavery. LMFAO this is just BS. No one has been a slave for over 150 years. So that is just Bull shit. There is no systemic racism in the US. Its made up BS to blame anyone but where the real blame lays. Or they blame the police. To pick out one two or three or even a whole precinct that has bad cops and say its the police who are at fault is about as stupid as saying every black is bad because some are murderers and thieves and criminal.

    The leftist idiots have pushed this narrative that its not their fault and they are victims. This is only to get votes to push a socialist agenda. So you have the liftist idiots running this crowd and then the useful idiots who are too stupid to know what is really going on but they were promised Obama phones and go along because someone waved something shiny in front of them.

  • MeanMrMustard
    There definitely were racist laws against blacks in the US at one point but these rules were deemed unconstitutional and overturned. This is where the democrats were sneaky. The welfare system has to some degree decimated the black community and I think it was intentional, but there isn't anything racist in it per-se, it's just targeting "fried chicken".

    This is a good point that, I think, a lot of people, especially black people, miss. What they may be perceiving as “systemic racism” is the end result of the exact policies that they themselves voted for and continue to vote for. In fact, it is the exact policies that they riot and loot for.

    And this is exactly what some blacks (like Owens, Elder) now understand and refer to as the “Democratic Plantation.” Blacks, to the tune of 90%, vote for the policies that indirectly target their population, and cause more of the same.

  • Simon
    This whole thread is a study in white privilege and mostly white male privilege. It’s hard to wrap your head around the validity of this issue (that is: People of Color have a different experience with law enforcement than white people) when you are the one enjoying privilege

    Can you clearly describe the privilege that you believe white people have that black people do not.

    Not hyperbole and arm waving, real things. Go.

  • Pete Zahut
    Pete Zahut
    This whole thread is a study in white privilege and mostly white male privilege. It’s hard to wrap your head around the validity of this issue (that is: People of Color have a different experience with law enforcement than white people) when you are the one enjoying privilege

    This reminds me of when certain women try to feel extra virtuous by holding it over men's heads that they couldn't possibly know what it's like to have a baby and therefore any complaint or ailment men may have or hardship they may endure is null and void by comparison. This is often their only claim to fame and the only reason they have it is because they happened to be born female. It wasn't through any special talent of their own. Oddly enough, they don't throw this up into the face of a woman who like men, can't have a baby and can't know what that experience is like....they reserve this little chestnut for men only because that's all they have.

    Men cannot have babies but we can well empathize what it must be like to experience such a thing but there's noting we can do except try to was their pain and be as helpful as possible. Many men have developed medications and procedures to assist women in childbirth Men do experience pain and mens lives are not generally filled with days of blissful comfort and ease. Thankfully the majority of women realize this but no matter what, there'll be the weak minded ones who have no other claim to fame who will always throw that in men faces as often as possible.

    Women have been "underprivileged" throughout history and Men (including black men) are therefore considered privileged compared to women. I would ask Black Men if they should feel guilty for their privilege over women and does it make you want to help women more when they jeeringly undermine and dismiss the struggles you've endured? What are they doing on a daily basis to rid themselves of their male privilege? Who is more under priveleged, a white woman because of her gender or a black man because of his color?

    There are inequities in this world that need to be sorted out but I'm always a bit suspicious of anyone or any group who blames their struggles or problems entirely on outside forces and rarely mentions their own role in the problem and who's efforts primarily involve changing everyone but themselves.

    If every white person disappeared from the face of the earth, there would still be those who did well and those who claimed that things were unjust. If every Man disappeared from the face of the earth, there would be women who preyed upon the weaker and or disadvantaged women.

    The other day I heard a black man from a predominately black area on the news say "Every day when I leave my house, I never know if I'm going to make it home again or if I'm going to be killed by a police man". I'd say this is a bit of an exaggeration and would ask him who he would call if he heard someone breaking into his house and I'd ask him who is more likely to commit a violent crime against him, steal his car or break into his house, a police officer or one of his neighbors?

    There are studies that show that if every man woman and child were given a million dollars, within a year the same folks as before would be broke and the same folks would be doing well. I have a feeling that if we got rid of all white police men and hired only black folks for the job, we'd end up with the same situation we have now because the police have the thankless, impossible never ending job of dealing with folks who simply aren't willing to follow any kind of rule unless they're forced into it. It's very evident during these periods of unrest how many people there are who are 2 seconds away from being the lawless individuals they really are once they got the chance.

  • Hisclarkness
    Simon mentioned and acknowledged that in the past there were racist laws but that since these laws have been dismantled there no longer exists any form of systematic racism. This is not accurate.

    Laws can change overnight but hearts do not. The racist hearts that enacted those racists laws still existed long after the racist laws themselves were gone. Furthermore, laws have a certain impact that doesn’t disappear overnight.

    Let’s start with slavery. YES, I’m starting there. For hundreds of years, white people accumulated wealth while this country was being built up on the free labor of black slaves. Wealth, mainly land, is generational and is passed down. Black people had no land to pass down from slavery.

    But slavery was abolished so black people were then able to work for themselves and build themselves up!

    Not exactly! Once slaves were free where did they go? They owned no land. Ironically, in many ways they were worse off because now they were no longer someone’s property and were able to be arrested and killed for even the slightest (often perceived) offenses by groups such as the newly formed KKK and former slave patrol groups (of which our modern day police are direct descendants).

    Despite this, black people worked hard to try and build and accumulate something for themselves. There was even a community in Oklahoma named the Black Wall Street in 1921 because of the number of wealthy black people who built up a prosperous city for themselves. But what happened? A white mob burned the city to the ground during the now infamous massacre. Black soldiers who fought in WWII alongside their white countrymen returned home to find that they were not able to secure the same benefits under the new GI bill which included educational opportunities, low interest, zero down payment loans for houses and businesses. This is another example of black people being denied the opportunity to accumulate wealth. Wealth is the key term here because it is generational and is why we talk about racism as SYSTEMIC.

    Schools were segregated and access to equal education was non existent on a broad level until the late 50s. But even AFTER that, prejudicial ATTITUDES still prevented true access to equal education.

    Redlining is a great modern day example of racism at a systemic level. Governments have redlined many mostly predominantly black neighborhoods as high risk areas which makes it more difficult to have access to fresh food at a local supermarket, secure better rates for loans,
    or even be flat out denied banking and financial services. Redlining affects a person’s direct access to health care. Redlining affects how public schools are funded. A school redlined to a poor predominantly black neighborhood won’t get the same funding from taxes as a school in a wealthy neighborhood. This leads to more crowded classrooms, more underpaid teachers, and less access to quality textbooks, materials, and extracurricular activities. An overall poorer quality education.

    This is why racism is systemic. Sure, the KKK and like minded individuals still exist. But racism today is less an individual problem. There is no one person to point the finger to and this is why the subject is often so hard to have.

    Also, there is an argument to be made that this is not a race issue but a poverty issue; yet you only have to scroll up to see why poverty issues and race issues are intertwined.

    Now, of course, there are plenty of examples of black people who have achieved much success despite these hurdles. That is fine and great. But that does not prove that the hurdles are not there.

    And, of course, there are lazy people who conform to all the stereotypes. And there are people who make poor decisions in life. This too does not take away from the facts of structural and institutional racism.

    The only way to progress is to ACKNOWLEDGE these facts and collectively work to change things.

    And I haven’t even begun to touch on the issue of implicit bias (which we ALL have regardless of race) and police brutality ( an issue that is related to but distinct from systemic racism.)
  • Hisclarkness

    This issue is not to guilt trip white people. White people should not have to feel guilty about being white. Nor should they have to feel guilty about the past. That is not what this is about. It is about acknowledging that these things happened and are still happening and that they must stop.

  • Hisclarkness

    It is hard to have a discussion on white privelege because we are talking primarily about perceptions and implicit bias which creep into society through policies and laws and social orders.

    I can’t tell you about the many times someone has exclaimed to me, “oh, you speak so well!” which is code for, “oh! I don’t expect a black man to be so articulate! I’m surprised!”

    I can’t tell you about the many times a white women has visibly clutched her purse as I joined her in an elevator, or the times I’ve been followed or closely watched in a store, or walked into a luxury department store and not been given the time of day because the salesperson assumed I wasn’t going to buy anything.And before you think it, I am very well dressed and presentable.

    I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve heard car doors click locked as I pass by them on the sidewalk while they are waiting at the light.

    I can’t tell you about the times people have assumed I like listening to rap music. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve been greeted by a white person with a “yo, yo ,yo” or “wasSUUP” or any other stereotypical African American vernacular that the person assumed I spoke and tried to fit in an be “cool” with me.

    Now, none of these things have to do directly with me working hard and achieving success. I am still able to do that. But the people who carry these perceptions are the same people in the board rooms and in the law chambers. These are the same people who determine whether or not I get that loan or job or whatever.

    It is not explicit. It is implicit bias. Implicit bias is something we ALL have. In this case we are talking about implicit bias towards black people based on preconceived stereotypes and history.
  • jp1692


    Thank you for taking the time to clearly and calmly—yet with great passion—express yourself on this divisive and emotionally charged topic.

    I really appreciate your very thoughtful posts; you have given us much to think about. Thank you!


  • Bud Stars
    Bud Stars

    Thanks hisclarkness for showing what a big topic this is. The problem cannot be dismissed by different versions of whataboutery. If we have white privilege, we were just lucky enough to be born with it. Didn't earn it. I think many of us as witnesses developed a way to turn things around and blame the victim. Opportunity for growth. I try to figure out how can I be part of the solution. Staying safe and quiet dishonors my relatives who are PoC.

  • jp1692

    TGND: Did someone piss in your cornflakes this morning JP?

    Nah, I don’t eat cornflakes, don't like 'em.

    But I am a proponent of full and open discourse and constructive dialogue.

    I appreciate that this isn’t always easy to do, particularly concerning uncomfortable topics or subjects which evoke powerful emotions and challenge long-held beliefs—which is why it’s all the more important we frame any such discussions in ways that create an environment which at least tries to make people feel able to express themselves freely and openly without censure or ridicule.

    That is clearly not the case here in this thread or in a surprising number of similar threads started by Minimus; hence my initial response to the OP.


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