Herd immunity also comes from people getting infected and recovering. Some epidemiologist estimate that 60% of the population needs to become infected or vaccinated before the population can achieve herd immunity. This is the approach the UK is using. I'm interested in seeing the outcome. They will let the virus pass slowly through the population so medical services are not overwhelmed. But, eventually a large enough size of the population will be infected and recover and herd immunity will hopefully be achieved.
Covid-19 (Coronavirus) - Status Update Thread
"Herd immunity" is only achieved by 80-85 % of the population being Vaccinated, or the old diseases now controlled, would have disappeared long before vaccines came on the scene.
Immunity cannot be passed on. Let that sink in. A small immunity may be passed on by a breast feeding mother, but this is not effective at protecting all, hence we sensibly vaccinate as many people as we can.
This virus has been found in people who have had the disease and recovered, and then tested positive again. They either did not build up any immunity, and were re-infected, or it lay dormant and came back, again no immunity.
The U.K Governments "policy" which is basically go home, stay two metres away from others, and if you can manage it die, that saves their Government money, is Totally Insane, and is the callous, calculated murder of more than likely many hundreds of thousands.
Do you really think this will work out well ?
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the policy, but please cite your sources Phizzy. You information is incorrect.
Scientists agree reinfection is an unlikely explanation for patients who test positive a second time, according to the Los Angeles Times, and note the possibility that testing errors, and releasing patients from hospitals too prematurely, are more likely the reason for reports of patients who retest positive.
“If you get an infection, your immune system is revved up against that virus,” Keiji Fukuda, director of Hong Kong University’s School of Public Health, told the Los Angeles Times. “To get reinfected again when you’re in that situation would be quite unusual unless your immune system was not functioning right.”
Fukuda told the paper that it’s more likely patients are being released from hospitals while carrying dormant fragments of the disease that are not infectious, but resemble the virus when tested.
“The test may be positive, but the infection is not there,” he said.
In my area, the panic buying has really picked up. I get the idea of slowing the rate of infection, so, as it makes it way through the population, we aren’t forced to ration medical services thereby choosing who lives and dies.
But why in the living hell are people going for the TP and water bottles?! W....T.....F?!
Last Thursday was my normal shopping night. As mentioned near the beginning of this thread, about 3 weeks ago, I did some light stocking of canned goods and various non perishable items - all stuff I would eat through anyway if this turned out to be less severe than expected. I went into the bulk buying store ... and....
..... and ....
... It seemed dead. Empty. Hmm, I grabbed a cart and went about my business. Got some more canned veggies, fish, got some fresh chicken. Meats seemed picked over, but not bad. Snacks, milk, etc. All normal stuff. I noticed all the fresh produce was gone, but meh... who cares. I don’t get that here anyway. I was able to get all my normal items without issue. I noticed plenty of rice, sugar, flour, eggs, meat, canned foods, soups, pastas, etc.
Then off in the distance, I hear a crowd on the other side of the store. Lights are flashing and fork lifts are bustling. I walk over to see a mass of people frantically buying toilet paper and paper towels. And, of course, they all had massive packs of bottled water. What is this madness? I just stood back and took pictures. When I got to the front of the store, I realized I had a good 45 minute line wait. As I got closer to the register, there was a teenaged girl, about 18, and she was visibly panicked. Highly agitated. She had, along with her family, carts (plural) of water and paper towels. She also was wearing latex gloves, and verbally snapped at her parents as they attempted to load packs of water bottles into the self-checkout line, only to overload the weight limit.
I have absolutely no forking idea what these people are thinking. None. Water bottles, TP, and paper towels. Why? Why?!!
Oh, and the food that was purchased : fresh produce. Why!!!??? It won’t last for more than a week.
Why can’t people panic rationally like the rest of us?
Thank you Simon for providing this thread. It is staying rational and informative and I really appreciate it.
The re-infection problem may be as stated by Mr Fukuda, let's hope he is right. But what I said about the herd immunity thing, is any of that wrong ?
You were mostly right. Herd immunity can be achieved in populations without vaccination, as that was the case before vaccines were invented. Vaccines are best of course. Herd immunity also applies to animals. Experts say 60-70% immunity needs to be achieved for herd immunity. I took microbiology in college, as well as statistics and a few public health courses. Also a vaccine for covid-19 is not expected anytime soon.
Back in the olden days, things were different - travel was a lot less so things like this wouldn't travel with quite the same speed, allowing a more gradual spread. The Spanish Flu was the beginning of fast and mass transit of people. It's worse now with air travel.
There also wasn't the same medical care - you got sick, you went to bed, maybe you died.
If you look at the pictures of beds setup in large halls for people to cope with the Spanish Flu pandemic, they are eerily similar to the pictures now of overflow areas to care for patients.
Sure, we have more advanced medicine and equipment ... but not for thousands of people suddenly turning up at once. In this case we go back to 1918 style medical care. Enjoy your cot, it's your new home until you walk out or are carried in a bag.
THIS is why we need to slow the spread.
People panic buying is kind of expected because there are so many unknowns, but the greedy excessive hoarding and profiteering should really be curtailed by government edicts and store policies.
Rumor has background checks are 17 hours. You think everyone who wants tp protect his tp would already b be armed. I sure as hell will not shoot someone over tp, beans, water.
Store was like the superbowl today. Everything low stock or gone and zombies walking around. I got my prescription and a few things and left.
They say panic will set in in 2 weeks. Damn!