What did President Trump say about Sweden?
We can (and should!) look at the other countries in EU who have more sensible policies (Norway, Denmark, etc.) while still taking in far, far more immigrants per capita than the US and use them as rough guidelines for "what happens"*
The problem is, the "what happens" part can be 1, 5, 25 years down the line and too late to make changes.
But we can look at previous groups and how they integrate and how they affect the society in their host countries.
Large groups of mass-migrant Muslims invariably want to setup Islam and Sharia. This happens everywhere they go.
Other groups do far better at integrating even though they keep separate cultural identities. Hindus Indians in the UK for instance, rarely cause the same social issues or threat.
Excellent. This is what I said the other day about this problem being something that we cannot just undo in 40 years when the corrupt politicians who caused this to happen will be dead anyways. It will be too late. Either we stop this threat now or we face the collapse of civilization.
The obsession with a PC "everything is good' utopia is the path to problems, being a JW should have taught us about the koolaid of selling Utopian dreams.
Freemindfade you are right. It is amazing to me that any ex-JW could believe the lies sold to them by corrupt politicians. As far as I am concerned, any politician that says we need to open our borders to more uncontrolled mass immigration from Muslim countries is a traitor and an enemy combatant. Should not a politician be more concerned with the citizens of the country they are voted in to serve more than non-citizens who share non of our values? I mean I do not mean any harm against Muslim people just as I do not hate JW's, but the ideology is dangerous and needs to be addressed.
I think we should have to look at immigration in two different ways. Yes, some of the migrators are criminal or have a criminal behavior. When they see all the rich people, the estates, the sport cars, the fancy shops, they do want to get all that fast. When they see all the rich people, the estates, the sport cars, the fancy shops, they take their chances, and start to grab as much of it as they can, regardless of methods. They are a very small minority of all the immigrants. Less then 1% !!. On the other hand, who are they that actually run all Swedish big companies on the floor. Who makes the Volvos, the Scania, the SAAB (military aircrafts), the SKF (ball bearings) the Ericsson, the Electrolux, the Alfa Laval, the Sandvik steel, or all those software companies who are making all your cell phone apps??? Almost 60% of all these people are of foreign heritage. In fact a large numbers of borne in swedes are older people. They are retired, and are served be immigrants on older peoples home, by all the people from former Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Irak, Finland, Hungary, and you name it. Sweden has become something that look the United states of Europe. Aren´t the American proud over all the immigrants that came from Poland, Ireland, Italy, Germany and yes Scandinavia. Yes we do need the 99%...that wants to work, yes we do not need the 1% that have a criminal behavior… Unfortunately we have some difficulties in identifying all the criminals,,,,But we cannot stop all the other 99%...
Simon: If you look at e.g. Denmark or Norway the path to citizenship is very long and hard and the idea is to send the refugees back again when things stabilize (refugee politics in Scandinavia has changed a lot the past years, except Sweden).
We need to clarify the argument: There is both the (immediate) concern about letting refugees in as it relates to safety (terrorism, crime and unrest) and there is the long-term concern (25 years).
Our discussion last week was mostly centered on the immediate concern (safety), which is where e.g. the experience of Denmark & Norway is immediately relevant IMO. What do you think?
Then there is the long-term question. This is a much more complicated question, but again I think it is useful to use European experience, but noting that refugee policy has changed to become much stricter over the past 10 years (and rightly so). I agree that Mohlenbeck or the suburbs of Paris should not be imitated, but the immigration that is currently happening in the US is minuscule relative to what lead to those and there are (likely) difference in the refugee populations.
I think a better example is the experience of Scandinavia with Turks in the 70s. There was a fairly large immigration, however Turks are not insofar as I am aware very disproportionally represented in the criminal statistics today.
We are the American Indians of our day and, just like them, we are exploring all the ways we can to survive.
Oh my God this place has gone truly insane
kpop: I wonder if you have anything to say regarding the allegation contained in your OP that Sweeden is censoring foreign internet sites which I think I provided evidence was wrong?
Laika - explain rather than spout? I'll clarify my point to give you some meat.
I live in a part of the UK which has a very high rate of migration. This is a mixture of Poles and Pakistani origin families. This has been ongoing for many years. The Poles generally work hard and integrate well. The older immigrants from the 50s and 60s also integrated well. The latest arrivals seem to stick in their communities, wear their former countries national dress - often most offensively full facial coverings, actively avoid speaking English and exacerbate housing shortages by cramming multiple families in small houses forcing the council to step in. Currently my two youngest children are a white minority in their classes, the teaching staff are slowly being replaced by multi language speakers (which stands to reason) and the school governors are now 50% non-white. A sex grooming gang of paedophilic Asian men made the national news and they used a flat above a shop , in view of my house (~100 metres away.) Most of them got away with it. The story has been published in a book called 'I never gave my consent'. My wife's former employer was told to sell his business to an Asian businessman and then was beaten up and robbed. He sold. The same happened to the local autorepair company - its now Asian owned. My wife gets weekly abuse in her current job - mainly from Asian , male youths (not exclusively but mainly.) The local drug dealers are based around the Asian taxi firm which is just around the corner from my house where they run an illegal repair shop from a private dwelling. Each night Asian youths park up around the house smoking and dealing. The white families are being pushed out of the cheaper housing as the Asian landlords buy up most properties and move in immigrants lowering the land value and running areas down.
So this is what I mean - the incumbent population are being replaced. Some get angry and want to fight. Some protest (though the law firmly favours the minorities - the last protest in the town centre ended up with the lady who was handing out leaflets warning about grooming gangs - who had abused her daughter - being put in the cells overnight.) Some try to be extra friendly and defend the encroaching cultural replacement. Some people try to get political representation (UKIP).My family are looking to move as my daughters are scared to go out on their own(oldest has been flashed and propositioned by the aforementioned car dwellers.) This is what it looks like to have your culture replaced. These are all behaviours that have happened before across the world as incumbent populations try to preserve their way of life in the face of incoming people - its a powder keg.
The real shame is that most of the problems aren't from the very first generation immigrants who generally integrated fairly well and took pride in being British. Its their kids and the latest wave. It also wouldn't be so bad if it was a superior culture but its setting back equal rights and causing massive pent up anger - on both sides.