by Dansk 449 Replies latest members private

  • Dansk


    This isn't easy, but writing it down helps.

    After 15 years loyal service to the organisation, my conscience would no longer allow me to carry on. There were just too many anomalies, ranging from 607 BCE to changing the "generation". I quickly learnt why the Org. is so against the internet - it is a dangerous foe!

    I told my wife I was no longer going to meetings (we have four children) and I informed my eldest son, a regular pioneer, a few days later. My son was upset and asked me why. I told him that when he felt ready I'd show him the information that helped me come to my decision. My son said he wanted to know immediately. I asked him if was sure, to which he responded in the affirmative.

    My son stayed on the computer for around an hour, plus perused the printed-out information I had filed. He turned to me and said: "Dad, you're right!"

    I asked him if was sure and he said that he was positive. He then said that his mother should also know. I asked my wife to also consider what we had found - but it wasn't easy and took around 3 days before she felt brave enough to see it. Remember, EVERYTHING going against the society is considered apostate. To even look at such information makes one feel as though one is betraying God. My wife looked. She agreed!

    Next, we had to convince our youngest daughter, a regular auxialiary pioneer. I told her that she would have to do some serious thinking - but I NEVER expected her reaction. She steadfastly refused to look at anything, but I reassured her that she was welcome to carry on as a JW; that no-one would interfere with her beliefs.

    The next evening I heard the front door open (my wife and I were upstairs in the bedroom) and we heard our eldest daughter, a regular pioneer, call up to us. We were so pleased to hear her - but within seconds we were confronted with a bombshell. My eldest daughter, her husband ( a JW) and an elder were waiting in the hallway and had all come round to move my youngest daughter out of the house. My youngest daughter had reported my wife, eldest son and I.

    I ordered the elder out of my house (all the time firm but in control). My youngest daughter reacted in a way we'd never seen before. I knew immediately where we stood. Nothing we said would make any difference. Our close-knit, loving family was being torn apart literally before my eyes - all the years of tender care and upbringing evaporating because the rest of us had committed the cardinal sin, we had gone against the society!

    My youngest son, tears streaming down his tender cheeks, tried to stop the girls from leaving, saying that they didn't know what they were doing. He brought to my attention that the elder I'd asked to leave was sticking his head through the door in order to listen to what I was saying. I ordered him off my property (again firmly, but in control). Suffice to say, my eldest daughter said that she could never see me again. The door closed and that was that.

    My wife telephone-texted both girls a day or so later to ask if they were all right. No response. My youngest daughter did come round a few days later, with the wife of the elder I had evicted, to collect some of the belongings she was unable to take with her that horrible night. As my daughter was leaving I told her how much I loved her and she said that she knew. I asked her to please keep in contact with her mother. She hasn't!

    I wrote a letter to my eldest daughter, not once condemning the Watchtower's teachings, but asking her if she believed her actions were truly Christian. I mentioned the fact that there were other people who had left the congregation and that she still spoke with them - so why not us! There has been no reply.

    In the meantime, I read Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz - this REALLY helped! I also ordered three other books, including Carl Olof Jonsson's The Gentile Times Reconsidered. Again, this book reinforced my decision was right.

    I cannot begin to express how stomach-wrenching the past two weeks have been, for that is all the time it has been. My wife and I have been hit by waves of emotion and the inevitable thought "Where do we go from here?"

    After 15 years - around 7 of which I served as a ministerial servant (my wife and I knew I'd never make elder as I'm not a 'yes' man - I have been outspoken on issues I could not agree with) - not a single person has telephoned or called round to see how we are (excluding two elders who came round on "official" business to collect the hall keys - I was the kingdom hall servant). All this so-called love permeating the congregation has certainly not been shown in our case.

    My family and I were considered the "model family" and were frequently selected to take part in items on the platform. It would appear that the love shown by JWs - at least in my congregation - was conditional love. I now feel that we never made any real friends, just kind acquaintances.

    This morning my wife broke down in tears again. It is hard - but she says she, too, will never go back; she knows it has been the promulgation of lie after lie. How can any of us go telling people about a kingdom set up in 1914 (or was that 1874, 1881, 1925, etc.) when to get to the date one has to start with 607 BCE, which has been proven to be without foundation. We cannot give the public such untruths.

    I have absolutely no fear of being disfellowshipped or being disassociated. The fact that my daughters refuse any contact what-so-ever makes us feel like we are disfellowshipped already. So, there's nothing that the elders can do to make us feel any worse. In fact, I am resolved to ban them from our home - there's just no point in speaking to them.

    This site is a godsend in that it is somewhere to go; to be able to share with others the pain we are suffering because you will all be able to identify with some, if not all, aspects of it. What kind of an organisation can destroy lives like this under the guise of Christianity?! Countless sleepless nights, lack of appetite, feelings of despair - all this caused by a group of old men sitting in a room in Brooklyn, because that is where "God's" loving counsel is supposed to emanate from. Shame on them.

    I am hopeful, ever hopeful, that the love we instilled in our daughters will come to the fore; that they will be desperate to want to see us and speak with us again; that some "change in thought" on the part of the society will bring them to their senses as they might question why yet another thought should hold sway over a previously deeply entrenched one. Unfortunately, "the light is getting brighter" is a statement that all JWs are familar with and one which has profound effect on the membership, either resulting in staying or leaving.

    I share this with you all today because I am in pain. There's no going back - not EVER! I want my daughters back, but not at any price. Emotional blackmail will not wash with us. This organisation MUST be destroyed and sites like this are a means to help accomplish this. I say this not vindictively, but to emphasise how much the heinous cultist hold must be shown up for what it really is. The hegemony displayed by the Governing Body is an affront to God and is indicative of whom the False Prophet really is. It is amazing, now that I am free, how the scriptures pointing to the evil slave point directly to the seat of Brooklyn Bethel.

    I am grateful - so eternally grateful - to the inculcation of high morals absorbed by my family via regular Bible study. I never would have read the Bible the full three times already had it not been for JWs. However, now that I have been shown, I see clearly that its interpretation has been sorely misplaced. Out of the trauma that had surrounded us inititially, but which is gradually ebbing away into oblivion, I believe much good will, and indeed HAS, come out of it. To have insight, no matter how painful, is a real blessing. Our goal on this list must be to, somehow, share that insight with others.

    Bless you all and thanks for reading.

  • blondie

    Dansk, I am sad and happy for you. To wake up to the lies but to lose family members over it makes it bittersweet. Your daughters may come around. Perhaps they are not very deep Bible students in the first place. We have a phrase in my family, "Don't confuse me with the facts." Some people just don't want the facts because it upsets their little safe world.

    I'm glad your wife is not letting the emotions change her decision. How old is your youngest daughter? Here in the US, they must be 16 to be independent of their parents or there must be evidence of abuse.

    Keep studying and loving one another. I wonder if anyone here is close by to give some moral support?


  • Simon

    Sorry to hear about what you've been going through Dansk. Our family was also broken apart by the WTS - I lost contact with my father for many years after he was DF'd and now I've left I have built a good relationship with him ('cause he never gave up despite us shunning him for years to my eternal shame). Instead, I now get shunned by my mother and sisters.

    Times change and people change - something may happen that will make them think and when the time is right for them I'm sure they will come to their senses.

    I'm sure you'll find some local support ... before you know it, you'll be going to Apostafests and such like

  • ozziepost

    Thanks for sharing your moving story, Dansk, and welcome to the board.

    Sad as though the experiences we go through are, it's a harsh truth that we need to go through them in order to come out the other side in a state of freedom.

    Keep reading and remember that you haven't turned your back on God, as so many Dubs will claim.

    We look forward to your share here.

    Cheers, Ozzie

  • Scully

    {{{{{{{{{{{ Dansk }}}}}}}}}} {{{{{{{{{{{{{ Mrs. Dansk }}}}}}}}}}}} {{{{{{{{{ Dansk boys }}}}}}}

    I'm so sorry for your pain in losing your daughters/sisters to the Organization.

    They honestly do not realize the evil they are part of, and they know not what they do.

    I'm glad you have let them know that you will always be there for them, and that you will always love them. In time, they may realize that the Organization is using them for whatever it can get out of them, and they, too, will be ready to leave. It will be an easier transition for them if they know that you will welcome them with open arms.

    Please feel free to take as much support as you can glean from everyone here. We all know the kind of pain you are feeling, and we care very much.

    Love, Scully

  • CC Ryder
    CC Ryder

    Dansk, so sorry to hear of the reaction your daughters had! The WTS is a Cult. Those who are in charge use DA'ng, DF'ing and heavy guilt as leverage and a tactic to keep them in their control.If a member has even the slightest consideration of independant thinking and doing research on the doctrine the WTS shoves down their throats, they find themselves in front of the Commitee. Just hearing the word "Commitee" sickens me, as if this type of meeting is supposed to "encourage" (using Ozzie's weekend pole topic) people. It bring's only absolute fear of losing your friends and family to a sick set of rules!

    It's good to hear you say that you don't care what they do to you and that you've prepared for the worst, but losing contact with your daughters is terrible. I hope that they see differently in the very near future. Hang in there and keep posting and reading.


  • garybuss

    Hi Dan, Welcome!

    What was the information your son saw on the internet that he accepted?

    The generation change was way back in 1995, the 607 problem is earlier than that. Was your decision to exit a sudden one or a gradual realization?

    Did you first experience behavior problems with the Witness group members, or was your crisis of conscience strictly a doctrinal one?

    The Way I See it

  • Dansk

    Thank you to everyone who has posted their thoughts regarding my family's situation - it has been a tremendous help knowing that there are so many of you out there who understand.

    My wife went out in the car earlier and I was worried due to her feelings this morning. However, she returned with some plants for the garden - a really good sign!

    Blondie, my youngest daughter is 19, my eldest 23. My boys are 18 and 13.

    Simon, thanks for a great place to go - a real credit to your forward thinking!

    My youngest daughter was befriended some weeks ago by a regular pioneer, the wife of a young, newly appointed elder. Trouble is, this elder's wife is known for her dedication and unswerving resolve. I just hope my daughter can break away from her influence.

    My eldest daughter is pioneer partner to another elder's wife. They, too, have immense influence and so I know it is going to be a hard battle. It is so incredible to believe that the two beautiful babies we reared and took such good care of could grow up to suddenly drop us; to discard us like a spent match. Unbelievable, yet evidence of the immense mind control of the organisation. I've tried to analyse the mind control, which is subtle and insidious. One believes one is truly serving God, and yet all the signs are there that something isn't right. Yet one carries on doing what constructive analysis clearly shows is contrary to logic.

    Now I'm free I SEE clearly and wonder how on earth I was so gullible. There is a definite Fear Factor involved here. First, a rejection of the society is considered akin to rejecting God. Then, the fear is of losing one's family and then friends - being ostracised and painted as though one is in league with the Devil. Yes, this is one heck of an organisation we're dealing with here.

    Thankfully, I have the support of my wife and two boys - without which it would have been incredibly difficult. How many other poor, wretched souls out there have are less fortunate in having no shoulder to cry on, no listening ear, no real empathy let alone sympathy? I believe the Christian goal of everyone on this list - whether one considers themselves to be Christian or not (I know that dealing with the Watchtower is enough to put anyone off religion) - is to try and save them from the (B)org! Not an easy task, I know, but there ARE ways and these need to be thoroughly explored.

    Obviously, to be taken seriously one has to keep one's integrity. To act responsibly and ethically in all we do, so that our opponents cannot hold us up to ridicule; cannot say our actions are unchristian. The tone of the messages you have posted emphasise this; there are some beautiful people out there, well away from the organisation.

    I'm glad you're there and if I can ever be of help in return, just let me know. I'm in Manchester, England by the way. Eventually, I hope to reveal my true identity, just as Simon and some of you others have. For now, I'm sure you'll understand that I'm careful so as to be able tempt my girls back. Please keep posting as there's no doubt the kindred spirit is a tonic, not just for me, but for others who are also pained, many of whom may be reluctant to come forward.

    Bless you all.

  • Dansk

    >What was the information your son saw on the internet that he accepted?>

    All the failed prophecies from 1874 to 1995 (generation change). The 607 BCE date was a tremendous factor as THAT date is essential to the whole JW teachings. With no 607 there's no 1914. With no 1914 there's no annointed remnant. With no annointed remnant there's no GB. With no GB there's NO WATCHTOWER ORG.

    By the way, has anyone ever realised that the 'faithful and discreet slave class (according to JW dogma)' is supposed to dispense spiritual food at the proper time, i.e. ALL the class and NOT just a small portion up at Brooklyn? When was the last time one of the remnant supplied you with spiritual food? Surely the GB should be in contact with all the other remanant to ask how they feel on decisions, etc. Who is the GB to dictate to others of the remnant? This class is supposed to be EQUAL!

    Also, as the members of the GB take a vote on policy this clearly shows they are part of a "democracy" whereas they are supposed to be part of a THEOCRACY!

    >The generation change was way back in 1995, the 607 problem is earlier than that. Was your decision to exit a sudden one or a gradual realization? >

    My realisation came over a period of time. I could never get to grips with, for example, a member of the anointed class "feeling" they were of that class; that they were sure they were going to heaven. I've met numerous Born Again Christians who are equally as sure, if not moreso, that they are going to heaven. Therefore, it is a mentally-induced feeling, not one brought about by holy spirit.

    Books like Millions now living will never die are outrageous, with probably almost everyone alive at that time now DEAD! And what about old Charles Taze Russell? He considered HIMSELF to be the faithful slave and was totally AGAINST any organisation. The problem is, the overwhelming majorty of JWs today have no idea of the organisation's history (the Proclaimers Book is an absolute farce!).

    Actions of elders and circuit overseers also appalled me. So-called blessed with holy spirit the hypocrisy displayed made it evident that Jehovah wouldn't use such self-opinionated, pompous position-seekers. I was once given the reason for not being appointed an elder by the visiting C.O. He said as he had holy spirit on him what he said must be coming via the holy spirit. He then showed me a scripture which mentioned reasonableness (1 Tim. 3:3). He suggested I go home and ask my wife if she thought I was reasonable.

    Perplexed, I went home and asked my wife that very question. She told me that, at times I could be unreasonable (can't we all!) but that, no, she would not say that I was an unreasonable person!

    The CO said that the PO also wanted to see me, so off I went round to his house. For around ten minutes the PO couldn't say a word to me, so I said "You're finding this difficult, aren't you?" He replied that he was, and that what the CO had said wasn't the reason I wasn't appointed; that I should continue progressing in the way I'm walking.

    A week later I took it upon myself to see another elder as I was confused by the contradiction. What a waist of time. This elder asked if he thought he'd been of help and in all honesty I could only reply "Not at all!"

    About a week later the service overseer asked if I would attend a meeting of the Service Committee due to the fact that there had been conflicting reports about my not being appointed. I said "Not again!", but agreed to his request (as a good JW). The meeting was held upstairs in the KH and I was informed that I wasn't appointed because I would speak out in temper. I asked for an example to be given and one WAS found - which occured TEN years ago!!!!! Yes, I told an elder THEN to stop treating me like one of his students (he was a lecturer at college and had a tendency to talk down to people). By the way, there was never any shouting involved. It was done calmly. Everyone was afraid of him - except yours truly. I must emphasise, here, however that this particualr elder apologised and we became quite good friends (he left to take up an elder position in another congregation and has now retired as a lecturer).

    The point here is to emphasise that 1 Corinthians 13:5 was NEVER applied as an account of the injury was obviously maintained - but not by the elder it involved and not by me. And this after ten years!

    So, not happy with that, the service overseer mentioned another argument, supposedly with a fellow ministerial servant. This, in actual fact, was COMPLETELY UNTRUE. No such argument had ever taken place and the person in question and I have never had a cross word! The night in question he and his family and my family and I left the congregation together and chatted freely and friendly all the way (where do they get these stories!).

    To see them groping for reasons for my not being appointed was pathetic, but I accepted their counsel as a good brother, went home and PROMPTLY went on every 'apostate' website I could find. As mentioned in my first post, there was never ANY chance of my being appointed an elder. I was too much of a threat to the harmony of the body as I am not a 'yes' man. I am an honest man!

    >Did you first experience behavior problems with the Witness group members, or was your crisis of conscience strictly a doctrinal one?>

    This is partly answered above, but the doctrinal was THE major influence on my decision. God doesn't make mistakes! Even after the above-mentioned meeting I stayed with the congregation for months afterwards.

    I should add, that my family and I are (were) considered to be one of the warmest and friendliest in the congregation. I was regularly told that I was typically unEnglish because of my warmth to others. Indeed, even the PO admitted during the above-mentioned meeting that he didn't know anyone who could greet people like myself - so isn't there a contradiction here!

    I'm very tactile with people I know. I guess I inherited that from my Irish mother, she was always giving lots of loving hugs. I have inculcated the same in my family. I'm not afraid to admit that I even hug and kiss my sons regularly. This is one aspect with the girls that I hope they'll not forget. We were such a close and loving family.

    Hope that answers your questions.

  • Mulan

    Dansk...........we left the organization about 6 years ago, after learning things over a period of years. My husband resigned as an elder (after 25 years) and we gradually faded out. Our youngest son was 17, and he stayed with it for a time, but overheard gossip about us one night, and it disgusted and angered him. He walked out and never went back. The older kids (33-39 now) and their mates are all out now too. We had one daughter in law who was sticking with it, but it got personal for her. Some issues with her sister caused her to take another look at things, about two years ago, and she stopped attending at all, over a year ago.

    AlanF has said that many JW's won't look at their religion until it gets personal for them. I believe that is true. When an injustice gets personal, you react. If it happens to someone else, not family, you can say all the little platitudes, like "wait on Jehovah" or "they are imperfect men". But..........if it is YOUR life, or YOUR family, it makes a big difference.

    So give them time. They are celebrities (so to speak) in the congregation now. Everyone is giving them lots of attention and lots of strokes for their "loyalty to Jehovah". Someday they might stop and think about what you might know, that they don't know, and they will come asking you. Keep the door open, and never let them forget they are shunning you, and not the other way around. It's their choice, not yours.

    Keep us informed.

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