So, I may have unknowingly become a heretic. But, I have lied, so I am a lier, I have lusted, therefore I have committed adultery. I am so glad that Jesus came and lived a perfect life so that I don't have to, because it would be impossible. I am so glad that I am 100% forgiven! Praise God!!
Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?
by booker-t 199 Replies latest watchtower bible
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cofty
That's one way of avoiding a difficult question Iriddle80
A better one would have been to investigate further with an open mind.
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lriddle80
Well, we are called to be peacemakers, and who knows, maybe you will argue against anything I say. I said what was most important. I do like to debate, but I'm probably not smart enough. I don't know everything. I never will. So I concede that I don't know. But I love God, and I believe Jesus died so that we can have eternal life. I believe in the holy spirit and that he lives inside of us. That's enough for me.
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jonza
I like how you put words in my mouth. I never actually said whether the Father worships Jesus or not. John 8:54 says God certainly glorifies Jesus. Revelation 5:12-14, says everyone will worship Jesus. John 5:23 says to honor Jesus just as you honor the Father. Many times God alone is said to be the only one who is to be worshiped. Again, how do you explain this if Jesus is not God yet Jesus is said to be worshiped?
cofty, so far you have been the one avoiding questions... Please answer mine: "How can you explain that there is only one God; no God before him, no God after him; only one true God, no other creator than Jehovah? Yet Jesus is also said to be God and said to be the I AM and the First and the Last and the Alpha and Omega? Do you believe in multiple Gods? Is Jesus a false god, if there is only one true God?"
Can you also answer, in the verses I listed before about how the Bible says, Jesus raised Himself from the dead, then elsewhere, the Holy Spirit raised Him from the dead, then elsewhere the Father raised Him from the dead?
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cofty
iriddle - Would it be fair to say that amounts to blind faith?
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cofty
So the father worships Jesus does he? Wow that's a new one. I have never encountered a christian who asserted such a strange notion.
That would make Jesus, "the god of the father". The bible never hints at such an idea. It only ever talks about the father being the god of the son. Why?
Does the father also worship the h/s? If not not why not?
Does the h/s worship Jesus and vice-versa?
You have totally ignored my point that you have been advocating a heresy. Why?
You said - " Three components , one being that is YHWH" This is partialism NOT trinitarianism.
I already answered all your questions. The trinity doctrine is an attempt by the early church to justify worshipping Jesus while pretending to hold on to monotheism.
I don't believe in any gods.
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nonjwspouse
Monotheism, one God. Three persons inseperable from each other, all in union with each other, divine, each taking on the form needed to produce the works needed. The same God, one God. God is omnipotent, is able to be and do anything that is far beyond our human comprehension . When studying the works of the early church, and the Jewish, this becomes a little easier to understand. BUT we as humans will NEVER fully understand the entire nature of God until we are with him.
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cofty
Three persons inseperable from each other.
Apart from when Jesus was an embryo of course.
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jonza
Again putting words into my mouth. I said the Father glorfies the Son. I never said He worships Him specifically. However to give Him glory is similar to worship and be translated as worship.
Also, you are resorting to the WT technique of partial quoting. I said that is how I was explained the concept of the trinity as components years ago in church, and it was actually when I was a child. As I explained before the concept of the trinity is three persons and all are God, and that there is only one God.
You have still yet to answer any of my questions directly.
You say I'm advocating heresy, what are your reasons for thinking that? I'm going by what is clear from the Bible. You've not even said what it is you really believe or used Scripture to claim what I am saying is wrong. You're just stating your opinion with nothing to back it up.
Why would the early church need to attmpt to justify worshipping Jesus when He was clearly worshiped in the Bible? I fail to see how that is related.
I'm still waiting on your answers? Why won't you answer any of my questions?
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lriddle80
Isn't faith, by definition, believing in something that one has not seen? If so, then I will happily have blind faith.