Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?

by booker-t 199 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Cchrist Alone,

    If you use the website of a religion rather than academic sources, your notion of Gnosticism will be skewered. I took more than one class. Also, I continued to read academic books over the decades. Wikipedia would be a better source.

    I believe the Trinity is an attempt to explain what is almost impossible for humans to grasp. The Nicene Creed is a political solution. There is no support in the Bible for the JWs view of Jesus.

    I am reading Bart Ehrman's book on how Jesus became God. The nativity aside he was not born God. So far I've read about divine beings in Judaism. Angels, the Logos, kings of Israel share divinity with God, according to the book. I don't know what other scholars think of his book. It is a hard read for me. Maybe I finallly ODed on Jesus books.

  • Laika
  • cofty

    Monotheism is foundational to Judaism - but - christians found themsleves worshipping and adoring Jesus in practice.

    They coopted an esoteric Greek notion to try to square the circle.

    2000 years later christians are still trying and failing to perform the mental gymnastics that are necessary to believe it.

    It is a foolish and self-contradictory notion. The apostles would be horrified.

  • NeverKnew

    Booker, you aren't serious... are you?

  • nonjwspouse

    Cofty, I find it interesting that the ancient Jews had many different names for God, descriptive names. Many names, but one God.

  • TheWonderofYou

    Dear booker-T,

    You like the bible passage where Mary became "overshadowed" by the holy spirit. It sounds magical doesnt't it.

    Whatever this "overshadowing" may mean exactly and however it happend, the consequence was the new life of Jesus Christ, hey !!! a Baby came into the world.

    A short question: Who can only give life or create life. God, logical, isn'nt that true?

    So the holy spirit must be God.

    Greetings, TWOY

  • TheWonderofYou

    and... perhaps it was merely spirit is only imagine of Gods might or power?
    Even if the word "holy spirit" is a literay construct to describe gods active doing, God in action,
    it belongs to God and thus we cannot spereate it and say this is not god it merely a technical power like the

    Hey the spirit of God is divine, it is the most powerful power in the cosmos,
    it is love and life itself, all words are only pictures,
    and there is not more then one God, one divine principle.

  • jonza

    The Father Called God

    II Peter 1:17

    The Son called God
    Rev 1:8
    Rev 21:5-7
    Rev 22:13-16 Jesus is the Alpha and Omega
    Rev 22:7, 12, 20
    Rev 22:13 First and Last
    Isiah 44:6 First and Last

    Rev 1:12-18 V17 First and Last

    Exodus 3: 11-14
    John 8: 56-58
    John 10: 11,14,30 [30 to 33] even they think 30 means he saying he's God
    Col 2:9
    Phil 2: 5-11
    Isiah 45:22-24
    John 5:18 then 23 Jesus wants the same honor, 1 John 5:20
    Luke 8:38-39

    Spirit is called God
    Acts 5: 3-4
    Acts 13:2
    II Cor: 6:16
    II Cor 6:19
    II Tim 3:16
    I Cor 3:16
    II Peter 1: 20-21

    Trinity in Scripture
    Luke 1:35
    Mat 3: 16,17
    Mat 28: 19
    II Cor 13:14
    Galatians 4:6 Gods spirit is Jesus' spirit

    Trinity at resurrection
    1 Thes 1:9-10
    John 2: 19-21
    Rom 8:11
    Acts 17: 30-31

    Then we have OT views about it:

    Isa 43:10 No God before or after JAH Isa 44:8

    No God besides him Isa 45:5 Isiah 44:24, 45:12 Compare Col 1:13-17

    1st Peter 2: 7, 8, 9. Who is being talked about here? (Jesus start from V3 for reference), See link in V8 links to: Isa 8:14, same person? See V13

    Amos 4:10-11 JAH said I overthrew you like God did

    Zac 11:13 JAH 30 pieces of silver

    God said us/we: Genesis 3:22, Gen 7:11, Isa 6:8

    Jude 4

    2 Peter 2:1 who bought you? see Gal 3:13, Rev 5:9

    There are many other verses which talk about how there is [one] of [something] and that one is Jesus, and then elsewhere that one is God. Creator being the prime example.

    We are never going to understand the very nature of God, trinity is a way people tried to comprehend Gods nature, but it's never going to allow us to fully understand Him.

    Like others have said, I was raised in a Christian church being taught the trinity exists, but never really knowing why. I wasn't able to back up anything about why I believed in the trinity at all. It was only this past year or so I started to really look for Biblical evidence of it. To me at least, I'm satisified in how I now understand the concept of the trinity and I believe it's the best thing we have to do so.

  • NeverKnew

    Jonza you forgot to recommend the use of non-NWT Bibles.

  • jonza

    NeverKnew: good point. Though some of the verses haven't been tampered with by the WT, at least when comparing versions it can highlight how they do their best to twist it.

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