Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?

by booker-t 199 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • booker-t

    This is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem. The bible is very clear when the angel tells Mary that Holy Spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant. The angel does not say the Father will overshadow her but the Holy Spirit will and if the Holy Spirit is a person that would make him the father of Jesus. Trinitiarians insist the father is not the Holy Spirit and they are seperate persons in the Godhead. So the trinity doctrine falls apart when it claims the Father is the father to Jesus. Classic answer to this question is for the trinitarians to answer your question with another question. The general response I get is, "This proves the Holy Spirit is a person because how could Mary become pregnant from a non-person? As you can see the trinitarians will totally bypass the question and throw up a smoke screen without answering the question. Jehovah created the universe so it would not be a problem to create an embryo in Mary without the use of male sperm. Since Jehovah gave Jesus life this is why he is Jesus' father. He used his holy spirit to cause Mary to become pregnant. Jesus never calls the Holy Spirit "father" in the bible and if the Holy Spirit is a seperate person from the father he would have to be called Jesus father. This would cause the trinity doctrine to have 2 Fathers in the Godhead.

  • nonjwspouse

    God the Father is God the Father. Jesus is the divine son, the word of God, sent to earth to teach the new covenat of God's Holy family on earth, one of love and forgiveness, and to forgive the sins of believers in Jesus' word, through His death and bodily ressurection. The Holy Spirit is the helper of the Son, the word, and the Father. Three seperate personalities, but all the same Godhead. All one God.

    One does not exhist without the other.

  • objectivetruth

    Nonjwspouse - What is the scriptural basis for your statement? Please list the clearest scriptures that support your statement.

  • Phizzy

    Can you really talk of God in such anthropomorphic terms, and take those terms so literally, and then find any kind of truth ?

    The Bible speaks of Father , Son etc as an aid to understanding, a kind of metaphor, not as literal explanation of the nature of God.

    Was there a "time" when God was not also complete with Holy Spirit ? was there a "time" when the "Son" did not exist ?

    I am familiar with the Sriptures used by anti-Trinitarians on this, but as the concept of the Trinity is not taught explicitly in Scripture, (it is there implictly), but came about by later Christian thinkers concluding it must be true, we cannot really argue on the basis of Scriptural writings that knew little of the concept.

    If you believe as most Christian denominations do that the Son was truly divine, and that the Holy Spirit is much more than the WT's "God's active force", then you eventually come to some understanding that may be called "Trinitarianism".

    A number of modern Christian thinkers have progressed to what they call "Beyond Trinitarianism", but that is for another thread I guess. (Complicated !).

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    There is no evidence of the JW concept of God in the Bible. I doubt the church fathers believed in the Nicene Creed in a literal fashion. The Bible is very tortured so church tradition has its place. One can believe in the Trinity and not be a child rapist. First, I don't know anyone who would address their audience the way you did in your thread. It was insulting.

    God may be experienced in many ways or no way. What is all the fighting about? This is supposed to be an ex-JW forum, not the Ministry School.

    The Bible does support a Trinitarian or Unitarian position so perhaps there are more options. If it were so important, I believe Jesus would have addressed it in his ministry in clear terms. He chose not to do so. We have no clue as to what his apostles believed about His nature.

  • designs

    The Gnostic Ophites had a trinity of sort- father, son, and mother (mother being closer to the femine Hebrew word ruha) and so the misunderstanding carried. Church Father Hippolytus is thought to have borrowed concepts from this Assyrian group.

  • cofty

    One can believe in the Trinity and not be a child rapist - BOTR

    But nobody can explain the trnity without contradicting themself.

  • factfinder

    Jesus did not believe he was part of a triune god in the Bible and neither did his early followers. They were all Jews and we have only ONE God. The concept of a 3 in 1 god is not acceptible to Jewish people. Jesus was clear that he was the son of God and this is how his Jewish followers believed him to be.

    I am not the same person as my father.

  • cofty

    NT writers, and Jeus himself, refer to the father as the "god of Jesus".

    How can that be reconciled with the trinity?

  • fakefading

    The trinity is a doctrine. If it's not explained clearly in the Bible then it's all up to interpretation! Don't we all just LOVEEEEEE human interpretations?!?!?! Because they're all so trueeeeeee!

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