Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?

by BU2B 288 Replies latest jw friends

  • adamah

    FHN, correct me if I'm wrong on this, but what you're doing looks alot from here to be tone trolling:

    A tone troll is someone who, in the course of a debate, dismisses an opponent's argument based on perceived crassness, hysteria, or anger. [1] It's a particularly slimy form of ad hominem attack beloved of Very Serious People, and its sliminess comes of it being quite commonly deployed against opponents lower on the privilege ladder. However, the phrase "tone trolling" itself can be used to excuse verbally abusing one's opponents, so be careful who you accuse of doing it.

    As a debating technique, it can theoretically be employed honestly (in response to emotional appeal), but it's not a very good argument because it focuses on style over substance. Rather than addressing the central claims of an argument, it focuses on superficial, "shrill" features of said argument, which inherently isn't that logical. Tone trolling in practice is almost always dishonest and therefore kind of creates an "appearance of impropriety" situation.

    As pointed out in the article, the focus should remain on the substance of someone's arguments, and NOT their style (within limits of course), since the truth of a matter doesn't depend on the style used by the one delivering the message (where the message SHOULD remain the focus; for as the Bible says, out of the mouths of babes come truths).

    Of course practically speaking, we all know that style DOES matter, which is exactly WHY JWs want their members to maintain a clean-cut look, wear a suit, etc. They exploit the tendency of most people to give more credibility to anyone who's wearing a neatly-pressed shirt. Obviously, that is a questionable assumption to carry, but you're seemingly demanding a uniformity in style?

    Bottom line is that anyone who wants to dismiss messages based on such style issues is free to do so, and is likely already looking for excuses to dismiss others so as to justify ignoring what they say (AKA post-hoc rationalization). They do so at their own risk, since the desire to remain wallowing in their own beliefs doesn't harm anyone but themselves, and certainly not the one who's offering their opinion.


  • FlyingHighNow

    Adam, you've made me laugh. Thank you. I love endorphins. Not sarcasm, I'm sincerely amused.

  • FlyingHighNow

    The truth of the matter is, if one is a smart @$$ and intends to offend, that will get the focus of everyone and it will continue the War, which this thread is about. Remember the topic, Adam? "Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?"

    Please, bring the substance. In an intellectual discussion, no matter your posting style, substance will help you be clear, more than making your "opponents" the butt of your jokes and being snide.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run


    What has this become the dump on Cofty question time? This place is billed as a discussion forum. We have discussion. This is real life. When certain people don't want to be bothered so they want their own forum utilizing the forum traffic Simon has built for many years, it is fair to discuss their merits. If we could skype and see each other, the tone might be softer but questions remain. This isn't a hootenany. Certain behavior triggers us after the Witnesses.

    Do you think co-workers and neighbors are not going to be incredulous about certain assertions? There is no war here. Discussion and debate are not war. I see it as a sign of vibrant life. When we were active in the Witnesses, we were part of group think. Think on your own or ask questions and corrective measures, such as shunning, are taken. No one fears that here. It is such a key difference. We all go by user names. WE have anonymity.

    Is it robust? Yes. You appear not to be able to tolerate dissent or disharmony. As long as I've been here, people disagree. Also, if you analyze the threads, most people are supportive when it comes to leaving the WT. People cheer on school work, work, love, travel, and normal living. I know I post on politcal threads sometimes. One can cite facts, websites but some people are in their own world. Barack Obama being president is always ground for a state seceding from the union. He is the absolutely worst thing that ever happened in American history. We are such a young country, too. Imagine if he were the worst thing in British history. Sometimes it is hard to deal with ignorant people. The Federal Reserve is another topic where sane thinking is left behind. Any conspiracy theory thread is based on people's imaginations. I feel some people need education. What is the entire point of this forum if not to embrace our differences? How could we agree if agreement were a good thing? No one determined that agreement is a good. You vote for it. One vote.

    I will never be a JW Stepford product again. This is hardly war. Cofty informs. He has never posted anything that is not factually correct. I worked in D.C. Dems and GOPs can be good friends when the TV cameras are not rolling. I am sorry that you are so frazzled. The atheists have me examining my belief. This is a good place to learn that one can have one's beliefs. We don't need the permission of other people. In the end, Simon owns the forum. He is the decider. Frankly, if this place were sedate, I don't think it would have the traffic flow.

    Some people argue about being careful for people who have just left. They will encounter the real world soon enough. It will not be sedate. Newbies should be welcomed. Terry reaches out to them and so do others. Flipper is always warm to newcomers. Each of us specializes in our little area of interest. There would be no point in replicating JW Facts or Free Minds. I also think this forum has relevance for its regular users. Again, Simon can always stop the impoliteness. This is not an elementary school. If I had to choose (and I don't), I would choose debate.

  • FlyingHighNow

    Band, responses to Cofty's responses to me. Very simple.

  • FlyingHighNow

    I'm guessing you didn't read all or even most of my comments, Band. What does Stepford Wives have to do with this:

    "Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?"

  • tec

    Well, FHN, I think you made some well thought out points.

    And as much as some people do (as well as those who THINK they do) attack a belief but not a believer, that is just too often untrue, and attacks/ridicule/mocking/derision/scorn become quite personal. The PERSON is delusional, the PERSON is weak or afraid to face reality, the PERSON is crazy, the PERSON is less intelligent or less evolved, etc, etc.

    In addition, some people are not separate from their faith anymore than an atheist is separate from his non-faith. So that attacking faith OR non-faith is going to come across as quite personal, and in fact, be quite personal.

    Best to argue arguments... but... well, this is the real world. So best to also develop a thick skin, lol.

    I'm going to start a fallacy thread. Maybe fallacy is not the right word. A thread about false things atheists believe that theists believe. If you can wrap your head around that, lol. I can't speak for all belivers of course, but for my own faith yes. Then others can add as to themselves. I just have to go to work, so I will start that thread later tonight or tomorrow. As long as i don't forget or am busy with something else.

    Peace to you!


  • Qcmbr

    Brilliant Tec - you start a thread describing what atheists say about theists but only actually make it about you. Genius.

  • FlyingHighNow

    Sounds interesting, Tammy. I'll look forward to it.

  • cofty

    attacking faith OR non-faith is going to come across as quite personal, and in fact, be quite personal.


    Consider it open season on my lack of belief in all things supernatural. I don't want to be wrong any longer than necessary and I promise I will never take a challenge to my beliefs personally.

    A thread about false things atheists believe that theists believe... I can't speak for all belivers of course, but for my own faith yes

    Oh great, another thinly veiled attempt to justify your voice-hearing cult and why nobody understands you. Can't wait.

Share this