Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?

by BU2B 288 Replies latest jw friends

  • BU2B

    I enjoy the odd thread about evoloution vs creation, etc but lately it seems that a large percentage of threads here devolve into fighting between Atheists and Theists and distract from what most of us here see eye to eye on, the WT and related things. I wish things could be more civil here and fr people to realize that people will never see eye to eye on the topic.

    It gets so tiring to see the contstant bickring and fighting on those threads.. They seem to go on page after page but very little of substance is discussed seeing as the existence or non existence of a god can be proven by anyone. No one can KNOW for sure. You can simply believe or not believe.

    I fear that a doubting/struggling JW may come here and see the division and angry rhetoric here and think that the "society" is correct in the way they describe "apostates".

    I hope I havent offended anyone in my little rant, but it is the way I feel for what it is worth.

  • cofty

    When you protest that "No one can KNOW for sure" and imply that the discussion is pointless I could not disagree more.

    Personally I think that tons of interesting evidence and reasoning is presented in these sort of threads. Its the sort of important stuff that former cult members really need to wrestle with. Proof only belongs to mathematicians, the rest of us have to do the hard work of investigating the considerable amount of evidence that is available. We can answer the big questions beyond reasonable doubt. Some of us have been doing that hard work for decades and it is a positive thing that it is available in the forum.

    The problem is that the good stuff is buried under an avalanche of repetitive nonsense.

    Facts are responded to with deeply held feelings, grandiose claims of supernatural knowledge and cries of indignation.

    Many believers don't want to discuss evidence, they want an unfettered opportunity to convert vulnerable people to a different set of superstitions.

    Often unbelievers are accused of contributing nothing positive to the forum. I want to respond to that here. Apart from some excellent, well researched science threads, some of the best anti-JW apologist threads have come from atheists. I offer 3 of my own as examples but there are plenty more from others.

    Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church... (almost 7000 hits in 11 months)

    The Parousia (3500 hits in 5 months)

    The History of the Watchtower's Doctrine of the Ransom...

    All three of those use only the JW bible and publications to argue in detail that the Watchtower are in error from the perspective of a bible-believing christian.

    As an atheist I am not only concerned about exposing the emptiness of theism but also of helping JWs to see TTATT and discover the wonders of reality.

    As long as there are believers making assertions that flatly contradict known facts and trying to recruit new members to their various sects, there will be atheists and rational people providing balance.

  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury

    There seems to be a steady flow of newbies here just lately, who's to know if there would be more or less if there was less critical thinking going on here.

    I dont like confrontation and meanness, but I cant stand arrogant stupidity and attention whores either. there are forum rules here and by and large they are adhered to, challenging poor thinking doesnt have to descend into ad hominem attacks no, but some posters like to bait others into doing it so they can cry foul.

    What used to put e off when I 1st was lurking was the mentally ill fundies claiming to be Christ, or some sort of prophet, others were bitter and vindictive in their condemnation of the WTS and used terms and language that repelled and detracted from anything they had to say of value. Atheists generally were thought provoking and gave me a great deal to go away and double check.

  • rawe

    Hi BU2B,

    I enjoy these sort of threads, both as a reader and responder. That likely relates to this being a main concern while I was in the faith and one of the major reasons why I left. For one reason or another, some of the more negative things about the faith that others experienced I did not. I was even greatful that in the 80s I refused a blood transfusion at the time blood in Canada was not being tested for HIV.

    In terms of how a doubting Witness might feel, that's a tough one. On the one hand, I think most of us appreciate just how helpful it has been to meet with folks who blazed the trail ahead of us and faced the same problems, etc. Even though we may have made good friends outside the faith, it does seem an Ex-JW is in a particular good position to relate to us in ways others cannot.

    But... the point in leaving is about embracing the freedom to explore who we really are, what we believe and the reasons for such. Because of that, inevitably differences of opinion will come up. That was there at the Kingdom Hall as well, but since the appearance of unity was held to be so important, we tended to bury any differences, especially if they touched on doubts about direction or doctrine received from the leadership. Out here, no such constraint is in place. An atheist, can speak freely about their beliefs. A Christian can share the true meaning of following Christ and how JWs miss the boat on that one.

    Good reminder tho! It seems to me, there is always an opportunity to discuss views without getting too much into attack mode.



  • adamah

    BU2B, the truth IS the truth, and cannot be titrated or 'watered-down' since different people are in different stages of their freedom from the JWs, and it's up to the reader to decide. The evo topic is fair game for discussion, since it IS part of the WT's deception (as stated by vidiot in another thread):

    Vidiot said-

    Back when I figured out just how much creationists (WT or otherwise) resorted to intellectual dishonesty when defending their beliefs, that realization led me to the inevitable question......If you have to cheat to defend your ideology, just how much value does the ideology really have?

    To use a medical analogy, ex-JW theists want to use much-finer scalpel than is ever possible to remove ONLY the bit of the cancer that THEY personally want removed (the WTBTS), but the whole cancer must be removed, or the tumor will likely just grow back in another form (people simply transfer cults).


  • cofty

    I wish people would stop using cancer as an analogy

  • trebor

    So BU2B, you're agnostic...The only intellectually honest position to take

  • cofty

    "agnostic" is a meaningless word.

  • KateWild

    The problem is that the good stuff is buried under an avalanche of repetitive nonsense.-cofty

    LOL! your opinion of nonsense of course LOL! and your opinion of "good stuff"

    Kate xx

  • This_suit_doesnt_fit

    A genuine discussion on almost any subject is healthy & enjoyable.

    Debating the validity of schizophrenic voices is not.

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