Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?

by BU2B 288 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Simon

  Any time a religious person says "peace" I can't help but think HYPOCRITE !

  Your faith is in a belief system that has invented a god that is nothing more than a psychopathic killer of anyone and everyone, women and children included, for the slightest mis-step whatsoever or simply the mis-step of never having heard of him or it.

  And what else? Oh yes - UNABLE TO TAKE A HINT.

  No, we don't want to hear you endless "peace be with you" or "it's a fact that Christ [whatever]".

  DO YOU UNDERSTAND? We are here because we can THINK and REASON and we don't want to be preached to or have to listen to the drivel that is your belief.

  You are allowed to have an opinion. Religious belief is someone else's opinion. Save it. Recite it at home, just not here.
• 

  Simon

  And as much as some people do (as well as those who THINK they do) attack a belief but not a believer, that is just too often untrue, and attacks/ridicule/mocking/derision/scorn become quite personal. The PERSON is delusional, the PERSON is weak or afraid to face reality, the PERSON is crazy, the PERSON is less intelligent or less evolved, etc, etc.

  Well of course it is THE PERSON ... who else would it be? And yes, all those things DO apply.

  Let's get down to it: you think there are some invisible people that talk to you. That is the basis of most religious belief.

  Now I would suggest that like most people claiming faith, you haven't heard the voices yourself. No, someone else told you they heard the voices and what the voices told them to tell you (that you have to do what the hearer heard). But of course it still isn't as direct as that - the chain of people who heard the voices that have passed on the message is immense as it is rediculous.

  But what if you do hear the voices yourself? Tell us if that is the case and why you are so special that the supreme being of all the galaxy wants to come to you for a bit of chit-chat. Yeah, he's too busy to do anything about children starving to death or being raped and murdered, he is busy talking to you after all!

  There are a number of diagnoses that could apply, all of them treatable with medication.

  If others starting saying that "I heard that someone told them that a friend said that they heard Satan once whispered to someone that climate change and evolution are both true so there you have it, undisputable proof that it is a solid fact" ... you could rightly say the person was all the things you describe above:

  delusional, afraid to face reality, crazy, less intelligent.

  And if they kept saying it they you could also add "annoying" to the list too.

  Anyone hearing voices deserves treatment. If they don't think they do then they deserve redicule. You think they deserve respect? praise? thanks?
• 

  cofty

  We are here because we can THINK and REASON - Simon

  I feel strongly about this. It took considerable critical thinking skills, intellectual honesty and courage, to work our way out of decades of indoctrination.

  Its a positive thing that ex-JWs then take a long rest and focus on practical things. When they are ready to wrestle with the big questions they deserve to hear the very best arguments for theism presented as skillfully as possible and then to see those best arguments held up to scrutiny.

  What nobody needs is encouragement to abandon their hard-won freedom and lazily adopt a whole new set of evidence-free supersitions.

  Bring on your most compelling evidence and your best arguments for faith and lets discuss them without fear or favour. Stop trying to play tennis without a net.
• 

  tec

  Awesome Tec . Respond to a quote mine with another quote mine. Stunning.

  I quoted you exactly, Q. I don't know what you are talking about?

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  cofty

  Any time a religious person says "peace" I can't help but think HYPOCRITE ! - Simon

  60 minutes later...

  Peace, tammy
• 

  144001

  You are allowed to have an opinion. Religious belief is someone else's opinion. Save it. Recite it at home, just not here.

  Simon

  Is this a new forum rule? If so, it would probably eliminate a lot of hostility from this board.

  Personally, I'm an agnostic who isn't offended by religious discussion, although I do not care to take part in it, as I find as much validity in religion as I do in the Greek Myths (and the Greek Myths are far more interesting to me me!) I really don't understand why people get so pissed off when discussing these subjects. I enjoy reading the debates on these issues, but if they can't be discussed without emotion the debates quickly degrade into ugly shouting matches.
• 

  Simon

  Is this a new forum rule? If so, it would probably eliminate a lot of hostility from this board.

  Not completely, it's for the people who cannot take a hint - the constant preachers.

  Those who want to discuss things and can separate "I believe" from "it's an established fact" are welcome to join in.

  Those who get insulted by people questioning their dogmatism should maybe only talk to others who share their delusion then everyone will be happy.

  Except part of their delusion is that they need to tell everyone else about it. Damn.
• 

  tec

  Any time a religious person says "peace" I can't help but think HYPOCRITE !

  I understand why you think that. There are many religions in which this WOULD be hypocritical. But please see the thread that I just started to perhaps understand my faith a little more. (as well as others who might come on and share some things, though I can understand why some might not want to at the moment)

  Let's get down to it: you think there are some invisible people that talk to you. That is the basis of most religious belief.

  Okay, I can discuss this with you. A little wary about it, lol, but okay.

  I don't think that is the basis of much religious belief at all though.

  But yes, Christ speaks. I have not seen Him with my eyes. Only heard Him. Yes.

  Now I would suggest that like most people claiming faith, you haven't heard the voices yourself. No, someone else told you they heard the voices and what the voices told them to tell you (that you have to do what the hearer heard). But of course it still isn't as direct as that - the chain of people who heard the voices that have passed on the message is immense as it is rediculous.

  But I have heard His voice, myself.

  I cannot prove that to you. There is nothing that I can say that will make you believe that. But others who wish it may go to and ask to hear/learn to hear/recognize Him also. I know that is true... because that is what I did.

  But what if you do hear the voices yourself? Tell us if that is the case and why you are so special that the supreme being of all the galaxy wants to come to you for a bit of chit-chat. Yeah, he's too busy to do anything about children starving to death or being raped and murdered, he is busy talking to you after all!

  I am not so special. I am not special at all. I am just willing. To serve Him and those who belong to Him... which has nothing to do with whether or not I am good, or moral. (I am even a poor servant). To hear Him, to be willing to go where He says to go; to speak as He says to speak; to do as He says to do, to put Him first, to give credit to Him rather than take it for myself. Even though all of that will at times garner ridicule, derision, contempt, etc, from some.

  Plus, talking to someone, sending them to help others (be that spiritually or physicall) IS helping. In no way does that take away from anything or anyone else.

  There are a number of diagnoses that could apply, all of them treatable with medication.

  And again, as I have said many times, I understand this from an atheist because there can be NO other explanation (other than a liar)

  But from a faith pov, that IS our faith, even though some of faith do not yet see and/or deny that this is written about in the examples of all those who belonged to Him.

  If others starting saying that "I heard that someone told them that a friend said that they heard Satan once whispered to someone that climate change and evolution are both true so there you have it, undisputable proof that it is a solid fact" ... you could rightly say the person was all the things you describe above:

  delusional, afraid to face reality, crazy, less intelligent.

  Sure but none of that applies. There is no chinese whispering going on here. Take out the chinese whispering part (and satan), and I have said that I undertand this from an atheist. Well, actually, from anyone... but I have never presented what I have heard to someone else as undisputable proof that it is a solid fact.

  It is solid to me... but others may do with that as they please. I would not take another person at their word on these matters either. But would test what has been said. So I do not expect or even want others to do the same for what I share.

  And if they kept saying it they you could also add "annoying" to the list too.

  Yes, to some who do not want to see/hear it. But that can be true of many things.

  Anyone hearing voices deserves treatment. If they don't think they do then they deserve redicule. You think they deserve respect? praise? thanks?

  I don't think they 'deserve' anything. Not praise, respect (other than as a fellow human being), thanks... or... ridicule.
• 

  adamah

  Simon said-

  Except part of their delusion is that they need to tell everyone else about it. Damn.

  Ex-JWs know all about the, "Go therefore and preach to all inhabited Nations" thing, etc.

  Unfortunately, the ancient men who devised religious belief systems stumbled upon the near-perfect recipe for a self-replicating viral belief system that evolved over time, coming up with a recipe that exploits known vulnerabilties in human reasoning and emotional desires that explains why it has persisted for a few millenia.

  Of course, humans are told they must play a role in the greatest role-playing game ever created or lose; worse, they're told it's not a game, but REALITY. Some don't want to give up the role, since they think they're "winning" at it....
• 

  Band on the Run

  't Tammy,

  After all this time, I have no clue what you believe. You claim to hear voices or Christ speaks to you. As I've stated before, I don't like the arrogance of Christ speaks to me. If you were willing, Christ would speak to you. It is particularly troubling to me b/c I suffered agonizing facial pain for so many years. I did the whole Jesus why is there human suffering routine. Prayed, was anointed with oil countless times, had prayers said for me, read about God and human suffering. As my mom remarked, "my child is fine but what do you say to the mothers with dying and suffering children? I am not better than they are. Not one bit. It seems blind chance." My brother has cerebral palsy so I grew up with children who were severely ill.

  Christ does not strike me as an arbitrary man. Perhaps he is b/c during his ministry he only healed a fraction of the people who came to see him in faith.

  It would be nice to just know what you believe besides Christ talks to you. I am also curious as to how one tests it. There is no Christ SAT administration. Faith is a subjective experience.

  Can't you understand that members here would have doubts? Honestly, after all these threads, I have not the slightest idea what you believe.