Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?

by BU2B 288 Replies latest jw friends

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  mrhhome

  rawe,

  I agreed with the following statement.

  Science is rooted in materialism, the "I believe what I can measure" sort. You are very right, this does put limits on what we can know and discover.

  I fully understand the scienctific process. I also have a good grasp of logic. However if something exists outside our currently understanding of "science", does that mean it does not exist? How does one explore it even with philosophy? Ultimately, you need to build on some basic tenets, and depending on how far one is reaching, those basic tenets may be difficult to prove.
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  THE GLADIATOR

  mrhhome Please tell me what you are on - I want some!
• 

  adamah

  FHN said-

  To me, to suggest that someone is not saved because of their disbelief, different belief, or condemned to hell for same reason, is unwise, ineffective and insulting. Equally ineffective, hurtful and insulting is to tell call someone's god The Flying Spaghetti Monster or to tell the person he or she is delusional and listening to voices in their heads that don't exist.

  FHN, I suspect there's something you may be confused about, since some atheists refer to THEIR God as the "Flying Spaghetti Monster"; it wouldn't be insulting to an atheist who believes in FSM for a believer to tell them their God IS FSM: they already know that, and it would be true.

  But remember: FSM is NOT Jehovah, Allah, Ahuru Mazda, etc, but the made-up God of those atheists who accept FSM as their made-up God, offering salvation of free pasta for all (meatballs are given, based on the believer's works).

  So no one was calling YOUR God (presumably Jehovah, the God of the Bible) the FSM: that would be heretical and insulting to an atheist, just like calling Jehovah The FSM would be insulting to a Xian. No one did that.

  (And besides, FSM can wrap his noodly appendages around Jehovah's neck to strangle him, even with one noodle tied behind his meatball.)
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  FlyingHighNow

  But remember: FSM is NOT Jehovah, Allah, Ahuru Mazda, etc, but the made-up God of those atheists who accept FSM as their made-up God, offering salvation of free pasta for all (meatballs are given, based on the believer's works).

  Ad, in a round about way, you're sarcastically equating your joke god, your made up god, with someone's God(s). Many, including me, find this kind of sarcasm childish and ineffective. It's an inside joke that that changes the mind of no one. And you did totally miss my point, trying to be technical. What was my point?The use of the FSM or calling people delusional, is about as insulting and ineffective as someone telling you that you have to be Christian or born again or saved or you're going to hell.
• 

  adamah

  FSM said-

  Ad, in a round about way, you're sarcastically equating your joke god, your made up god, with someone's God(s). Many, including me, find this kind of sarcasm childish and ineffective. It's an inside joke that that changes the mind of no one. And you did totally miss my point, trying to be technical. What was my point?The use of the FSM or calling people delusional, is about as insulting and ineffective as someone telling you that you have to be Christian or born again or saved or you're going to hell.

  Well hell, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, thinking you may have been confused by thinking an atheist was calling YOUR God a Flying Spaghetti Monster, but it turns out you didn't misunderstand, but were insulting MY deity.

  FSM is no joke for many atheists: we have as much evidence to support belief in our God as anyone else has for theirs.

  Why should believers in say, Amaterasu-O-Mi-Kami or Ahuru Mazda have a God to worship and get offended when she/he is insulted, but not atheists? You don't believe in Ahuru, right? So, you're an atheist to someone else's deity.

  We're just a bit tired of being sneered at by pious believers for their thinking us atheists lack imaginations and creativity.

  I suspect this video explains why some believers react so vehemently to the idea of atheists having a God, since it's all about rejection:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j8ZMMuu7MU
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  FlyingHighNow

  Ad, whether you use the easter bunny, santa.clause or fsm as your a

  nalogy, and.Ive heard tooth fairy as.well,as a comparison to someones god, your intension is sarcasm. You have still missed my point. Im neithet a Christian, nor am I an atheist. pushy, coercion or sarcasm from either is insulting and.ineffective in trying to convince me or anyone of atheism or Christ or God.
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  nicolaou

  FHN, you make a very interesting point. I've been wondering for a while now if ridicule really is an unacceptable feature in debate - it certainly isn't a valid form of argumentation. The thing is, some individuals really DO come out with the most laughable nonsense and parade it as a serious proposition that merits attention.

  What am I supposed to do?
  
  
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  adamah

  FHN said-

  Im neither a Christian, nor am I an atheist. pushy, coercion or sarcasm from either is insulting and.ineffective in trying to convince me or anyone of atheism or Christ or God.

  I personally don't care about WHAT people believe, as much as WHY people believe what they do. Fact is, the ones who should care about WHAT they believe are the individuals themselves, since only they bear the consequences for their beliefs, and can (or should be able to) actually control WHAT they believe.

  Hence it's not about trying to convince people to become atheists (pointless, since many people cling tightly to beliefs for emotional, and not logical, reasons), but FSM IS symbolic about others recognizing MY right as an atheist to hold MY beliefs, and not to be deprecated for it.

  I choose to have a symbol of a God to represent my beliefs based on a lack of evidence for Gods, and that belief IS mine; challenging it risks my taking offense, just as some believers hypocritically protest MY right to have a similar icon to sum up my beliefs!

  For me at least (I can't speak for other atheists, since there is no spokesperson for atheism, nor should there be), FSM is about parity, not parody.

  Adam
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  FlyingHighNow

  Ad, look at the tbread title. Arogance is the reason for the warzone. Im more than just a little tired of it. I csn respect a civil, polite discussion. Ive not been posting so much lately. I noticed during the last year, that Simon has calmed a lot of the pettiness down.
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  FlyingHighNow

  Nic, be patient and communicate well, when you think people are incredible in their assertions. The moment you

  pull the sarcasm card, the person you wish to reason with stops listening and may never take you seriously again.