Board of bitterness

by 1009 165 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  trebor

  1009,

  When an organization has promoted the thoughts and/or actions to shun, hate, and kill members who leave, what kind of reaction do you think that would evoke?

  http://savedfromthewatchtower.blogspot.com/2009/05/shun-hate-kill.html
• 

  NomadSoul

  I have large spans of time without even thinking of my cult experience. But sometimes it comes back for a minute and this board is a good way to feel some understanding.
• 

  Separation of Powers

  I have read many post on this forum and found that very few people are truly "bitter." Some simply want to share their experience and reflect on how it has affected their lives. Others vent, sure, but they are content with where they are in life. Others, well, others cannot get past their experience. I, for one, do not blame them.

  It is akin to a romantic relationship, an "all-in" relationship where you put your heart on the line. When it ends, some say, "well, if that person doesn't love me anymore, than I will move on. I would rather be happy alone then miserable with someone." Others might say, "There is no way that you are going to leave me without regretting it! I will make your life miserable!" Same relationship, same scenario, different perception, different reaction.

  Anyone raised in or around the organization is expected to be "all in." It affects every aspect of your life and every decision you make. When you find that it's time to leave, or it has left you, than your reaction will be just that....a reaction, your reaction. No one on this forum can take that away from you cause it is "your experience." To question the validity or basis of your reaction, to condemn or demean it whether calm or bitter, is to devalue your unique experience... and no one...no one has that right.

  SOP
• 

  WideAwake

  it sounds.like your in denial or repressing memories...one k of nine... Ive seen more genuine lve on JWN than in many years in my cong. False friendships based on conditional lurv.
• 

  144001

  1009,

  It looks like you've achieved what you set out for. 5 pages of controversy associated with what appears to me to be a dishonest post. Congratulations!!!!!!! Tell your mom about it and she might give you a cookie as a reward for all of your effort.
• 

  rebel8

  For an outsider it will always seem unreasonable to refuse a threatment, and when someone dies it is easy to blame the organisation that defined the doctrine. When I would have refused blood, that would be because I believed their doctrine is right. Nobody forced me to believe that. I made a choice. Maybe a wrong one. But to call WTG murderers? No, I (still) don't agree with that.

  The only way you could "not agree with that" is because you have:

  1. not read my story (linked provided earlier), and/or
  2. chosen to minimize or dismiss experiences outside of your own, experiences which include individuals acted in an illegal fashion, and would have been guilty of negligent homicide if I died, and/or
  3. chosen to believe that everyone in the cult made a choice to be there

  You can make a better choice right now to educate yourself about the facts.

  Good luck on your journey toward truth. You haven't arrived yet, but you can.
• 

  jwfacts

  I don't understand why 1009 is getting such a hard time. He has been very open, and makes some good points. It is better for many people to move on with their lives and leave the WTS behind. I obviously have devoted myself to fighting the WTS, but each person handles leaving differently.
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  Glad you went your route Paul...as are many others i'm sure.
• 

  1009

  factfinder
  Hi 1009,
  I don't think I am bitter. Dissapointed. Sad, because my hopes for the future were found to be untrue.
  I wondered too why there are so many on jwn who are very angry at the wts, but now I understand. People have had their lives wasted and ruined by spending it as a jw. I could have gotten a career, but, no, just part time jobs because armageddon is coming any day now and we need to put Jehovah first. Now I will have no money to retire on. I have no future to look forward to.
  For years I also felt anger towards jws, but I did not want all the negativity. I'm trying to become more balanced. But I have not forgotten the bad experiences. They have affected me.
  I have no desire to stop witnesses from being such, nor would I encourage anyone to join them. It is up to each one as to what they want to believe.
  JWN allows us to vent, ask questions, have access to information we would not otherwise have.
  I'm glad that you had many good experiences as a jw. But why did you leave?
  Anyway, speaking for myself, I do not think I am bitter, and I do not hate jws. But it is not the truth, no religion is and I am disgusted by the arrogance of the new gb and their attitude , hatred and view of any who no longer want to attend meetings.
  There are many good comments here. I hope your question has been answered.

  Hi factfinder.

  Thank you for your answer. I think our attitude is quit similar. It is sad that your active family doesn't maintain contact with you. I read in your first post at this board that you're not DF, so they cannot use that excuse. But it is cool to see that you want to avoid 'all the negativity', dispite the disappointments.

  Basically I left because I lost my faith in God. You can read more details in a post in this topic and also in my first topic at this board.

  You also tell in you first topic that you always felt 'like an outsider'. May I ask why? Did that make it easier for you to take a distance to JW? I'm wondering why my experiences are so different from most of the others here. But I too felt like an outsider. Like I was the only one that didn't blindly follow what the WTG said, but because I was convinced that their explanation was right. Maybe that is a clue to understand why I am not as disappointed as others.

  JakeM2012
  1009, I don't appreciate your accusatory tone and condemnation, and your reasoning is as flawed as WTBTS's.
  
  When visiting this site, one must give consideration that many are at various stages of recovery and reconstruction. The vast majority here are sincerely trying to move on with life in a peaceful and non-retalitory way. Many of us are in the process of reconstruction of our lives after realization that what we had worked so hard and made personal sacrifices for and with has been nothing but lies. Some have devoted the best years and even the majority of their life to the efforts of Watchtower Bible Tract Society with nothing to show for it other than regrets, not even in any supposed spiritual way of storing treasures in heaven.
  
  When I consider this group of individuals compared to the investors of the King of Ponzi Schemes Bernie Madoff, I see similarities and differences. Quite frankly, you have no qualifications or divine appointment for your judgmental attitude either. You state that if we don't claim to have the truth we cannot judge who is right and wrong. I may not know the full truth of the universe, but I can with confidence tell you that Watchtower Bible and Tract Society's teachings are not only incorrect, but intentionally fabricated lies, even they admit that by changing their teachings regularly claiming "new light". So basically, shut your trap up.

  Hi JakeM2012, I recognize the ' various stages of recovery and reconstruction'. My stage is clearly different than yours. In the past I could, as an active JW, not post at this board. I too ' have devoted the best years and even the majority of their life'. But not to an organisation, but to a God that does not exist. Now I am no longer a JW and I can show you that there are also ex-JW without the anger that is common at this board. And you tell me to shut up because you just cannot accept that I am not as angry as you are? Get a life!

  EmptyInside
  Everyone is different.
  
  I'm glad you feel so well-adjusted after leaving the Witnesses.
  
  But,if we can't occasionally vent here,where else can we go? lol.I have read literal horror stories on this board. Some have gone through much abuse and lost their families.
  
  Some,like me,can't be 100% open with those they love.
  
  So,if they want to discuss these issues with those who have gone through the same,then,why not
  
  Actually,I see more depressed and complaining people at the Kingdom Hall then I read here.

  Hi EmptyInside,

  You have some good points. I'm probably here too to vent. No other place to do that either. And indeed, the ones with horror stories should post them here, it is obvious the best place for that. And it is also true that there are many 'depressed and complaining people at the Kingdom Hall'. Nice meeting you.

  Berengaria
  You were in for 30 years and have no family or friends there??

  Hi Berengaria,

  I was a 3th generation JW. father got DF when I was just a little kid. My grandmother allready died. My mother is inactive. My halfsister, on fathers side, and her children are JW too. But I only have seen her about 10 times in my life, the first time when I was about 22. We did not have much contact.

  I did have friends, but not very much. I was very independent, had good contact with all in my environment. The ones that I called friends in the past, appeared to be fake friends. So, no, I do not have friends there.
• 

  adamah

  Oh, i dunno about 'dishonest' OR trolling. Far from it: 1009 seems perfectly in keeping with what you'd expect to find in an ex-JW, as someone who's self-absorbed, yes, but that's ONE of the personality traits that is a prerequisite to be attracted to BECOME a JW, in the first place. The 'lure' of the message of JWs is that YOU are special, and YOU have figured out what the overwhelming majority of "Worldlies" are just too stoopid (sic) to realize. That's a message that attracts a certain personality type to JWs, and those traits doesn't just automatically disappear, simply because you're DF/DA.

  In fact, if a person displays TOO MUCH of a self-absorbed attitude, they're likely to be DFed for acting "too big for their britches", and hence you'd expect there to be MORE narcissistic behavior on display here! However, you don't; it's likely because some/most DA/DF learn that they need to grow as people to move beyond the JWs, and that as stooges once burned, they've let their fantasies and desires be manipulated by others to their own disadvantage. Most eventually see it as an opportunity to grow as people, and realize they've got a lot of work left to do.

  And as uncomfortable it is to recognize, there were MANY ordinary fine and upright German citizens would simply didn't care (or didn't want to KNOW) about the atrocities that were committed by their Government in their name; they simply refused to see what they didn't really want to see, and didn't exactly LOOK for it, either. They didn't WANT to know, and some lived very well during the War years. Afterwards, these same types said, "6 million Jews were killed, but why is that MY fault?" denying in sharing even a small part (if only a fraction) of the collective blame. It's called "going with the flow", and it's human nature, being the kind of apathy that accounts for perpetuation of organizational practices like the JWs' shunning policy.

  SImilarly, the GB needn't be particularly evil masterminds of psychological manipulation, since the organizational structure they operate in allows a similar diffusion of responsibility; they operate under the same concerns as the typical R&F member, knowing without saying that the other members will accuse them of apostacy if they move too far ahead of the others. That's exactly what Ray Franz' book confirmed: the sheer boringness of the GB, where even the members didn't want to stand up against the hardcore authoritarian members.

  Psychologist Stanley Milgram's study focused on subjects who were manipulated to perform "evil" acts under such situations, and these people were later described as being regular ol' Joes and Janes; a later author even wrote about such people, describing the sheer banality (normal, if not boringness) of people who carry out "evil" acts (And that "evil vs good" nonsense is typical JW binary dualistic thinking, coming from Zoroasterian thinking). The people who carry out evil acts often are NOT sadists who enjoy being cruel to others, but simply good people (who you'd like to throw a beer back with) who find themselves under the "wrong" circumstances.

  So in essence, the ex-JWs are turning the GB into scapegoats and blaming THEM for all that's wrong with the JWs, and active JWs blame "bitter" apostates who constantly attack their beliefs rather than simply taking a "live and let live" attitude, and both groups have made the same logical error: creating "strawmen", an opponent that doesn't actually even exist.

  Adam