To the Household of God, Israel, and Those Who God With...

by AGuest 137 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  sabastious

  Again, allow me to interject some logic here. You can't claim me to be a hypocrit without USING past experience and discussions to base it on, so by calling me a hypocrit, YOU, in fact, were dragging up the past. In contrast, I was saying that I wouldn't drag up the past.

  You often use a technicality to stand on as you are now. This conversation is happening right now and when it ends it will become the past. I said you were showing hypocrisy rather than asserting you are a hypocrite so now you are misrepresenting me which you also often do.

  It's not fear of believers at all. It's a scary idea that some people who made decisions that have real ramifications on other's lives base those decisions on usually wrong, mean spirited and utterly bollocks insane voices in their head. The people themselves aren't scary.

  You fear the ideas of the believers and what those ideas are capable of doing to the world they manifest within. Therefore you fear the people who create those ideas. Again, you just stand upon a technicality and call yourself the victor. Frankly it's tiring speaking to you becuase of this pattern you exhibit.

  I am not drawn to her. Much like her accusations against me, repeating them over and over doesn't make it any more true or sane. Your armchair analysis needs some work, perhaps actual schooling and education.

  Yes you were drawn to her and the tomes of discussion are the proof. You even became friends with her and spoke fondly of her when you were acused of verbally beating her. You were drawn to her whether you admit it or not.

  Would be be fair to suggest that, because I am a raging social liberal and thing gay people should be able to get married and will rail relentlessly against homophobes and racists, that I am somehow drawn by the strength of homophobes and racists? Your analysis would seem to indicated that, because I think something is wrong and strongly think that, I must somehow be drawn to it.

  So you are likening Shelby to a homophobe who needs to be conquered and shipped out of town? I don't see the comparison as legitimate. What I do see is you trying to justify your obsession not only with Shelby, but with believers in general. That obsession is fueled by jealousy that we held our faith whereas you could not. We retain our strength while you required to rebuild it. Which you have, but you are compeled to put your new world view up against the one that you chose to cast aside. You are jealous of our strength and wish to break us, but you will fail like you have in the past.

  Wait, wait....you often rail against me....does that mean you are drawn to me? Am I really your living god? Is my awesomeness what draws you to me?

  Yes I was drawn to you. I see a lot of good in you and at one point in time sought fellowship with you. However that went awry for a variety of reasons this being a good example of those reasons:

  I think I might be getting a little bit of a boner here....

  -Sab
• 

  poopsiecakes

  I've always been on the side of reality, Sab and have never pretended otherwise so no, I'm not neutral. I choose not to express myself aggressively and I choose to try my best to look beyond the words to understand the person within. There are times though, that the words need to be challenged or I would feel irresponsible. If the fact that I like you is painful for you, you'll just have to put up with it so stop fighting it already.

  I also choose to ignore the fact that you effectively called me willfully blind and manipulative and harboring a mob mentality. I know you're just frustrated.
• 

  sabastious

  No, she didn't. At all.

  She said that what I see as jealousy is actually pity. She was speaking for many people which means that she sees Shelby's actions to be deserving of pity by more than just her. This is what I find deplorable and it is not an opinion of a neutral party in the slightest. I have seen Poopsie turn a blind eye to the malice of the rationalists towards believers time and time again. It's so sad that you all cannot see the badness that you have been engaged in. All the believers can do is pray that one day you see the truth and come to the light instead of waging war on people you fear. No one believes they are prejudice, but that doesn't mean they are not.

  -Sab
• 

  Qcmbr

  Sab - I wasn't referring to AG - my comment was a simple nudge to suggest that not everything is wrapped in complex layers of meaning that not only excuse and explain and even justify. Sometimes something is fairly simple. When you start weaving a story full of motive and deep psychological denouement leading to some exciting reveal it may simply avoid a shallow truth. Not always but sometimes.

  ---------------

  Everyone is a complex character that's kind of a given that most people take for granted. A single post however, does not necessarily embody the sum totality of the person. Now I'll go a long way with you on the idea that online we play games, we assume roles, we can be villains or we can be heros. The character AG was pretty bitchy, utterly self obsessed (check the number of self references), disingenuous and was a conduit for a persona that the real world would not countenance (if she talked to everyone about her visions she would be unemployable and would risk being sectioned) she used this forum (and we all use this forum in various ways) as her soapbox for some pretty out there stuff. Where she was utterly rubbish at online forums was that she assumed that everyone would respect a story about visions, mystical voices and dragons and she never found an effective strategy to cope with criticism - her go to method was to trash the poster which naturally provoked severe arguments and ongoing thread wars.

  I don't come onto JWN to have one particular poster (because no one else does it here) create a disbelievers v believers board division (she regularly talked about 'them' and 'us', she courted certain posters and tried to create an inner clique of believers) and spend her time preaching her Harry Potter world in one post and then in the next calling me('them') a fly, ignorant, blind, lacking in reading skills etc. in the next. Most posters don't provoke strong reactions in me and hopefully I don't in them - I can read a post and disagree, ignore or comment in the affirmative - that's how forums should work. AG however, went out of her way to act like a troll (some of her recent posts were ridiculous fishing for a fight exercises) relying on the tiresome fall back position of 'YOU misunderstand ME' - a rather weak position so many people claim when they defend her. I'm very happy that I do understand her and I know when someone is being condescending, egotistical, sly, manipulative and vindictive.

  If we learn anything as a board it could be to work hard on being understood , KISS, don't carry baggage away from a post that disagrees, don't always route 1 to personal and avoid creating board celebrities who play to the crowd.
• 

  EntirelyPossible

  I said you were showing hypocrisy rather than asserting you are a hypocrite so now you are misrepresenting me which you also often do.

  Well, what you ACTUALLY wrote was, "For you, of all people, to scold someone else for relentlessly attacking is incredibly hypocritical ..." If, as you assert, this has nothing to do with anything prior to our current truce, what specifically are you referring to that I have done? I am not misrepresenting you, I am asking for clarity and understanding and attempting to correct you when you say things like I am jealous of Shelby when I am not.

  You fear the ideas of the believers and what those ideas are capable of doing to the world they manifest within. Therefore you fear the people who create those ideas.

  Again, not true. I do not stand upon a technicality and declare victory, I am simply clarifying what I meant and telling it isn't the same as your incorrect interpretation, re-phrasing and assertion of what you want to claim I really meant.

  Yes you were drawn to her and the tomes of discussion are the proof. You even became friends with her and spoke fondly of her when you were acused of verbally beating her. You were drawn to her whether you admit it or not.

  You did the same thing to me! You said you thought very fondly of ME! It's nice to know that you can admit your mancrush on me.

  So you are likening Shelby to a homophobe who needs to be conquered and shipped out of town? I don't see the comparison as legitimate.

  Of course the comparison is not legitimate, that's not what I wrote at all. I said your constant assertion that I must be drawn to and jealous of Shelby because I refuse to give in to her erroneous and spiteful behaviours would be the same, analagously, of saying that I must also be drawn to racists orr homphobes because I also refuse to give in to their erroneous and spiteful behaviours.

  Now that I have explained it again, perhaps you'll see the connection.

  Yes I was drawn to you. I see a lot of good in you and at one point in time sought fellowship with you. However that went awry for a variety of reasons this being a good example of those reasons:

  You still engage with me. You clearly are still drawn to me, an immense, unstoppable attraction that you can neither explain nor control, a seething frothy mixture of hate, jealousy, desire, attraction, rage, all at the same time controlling you, forcing you to engage with me for just the little bit of attention you so desperately crave that I alone can fulfill.

  I mean, hey, if you get to just randomly spout out what others feel and claim it to be true, I guess I can too.
• 

  sabastious

  I also choose to ignore the fact that you effectively called me willfully blind and manipulative and harboring a mob mentality. I know you're just frustrated.

  I don't want you to ignore that statement. I want you to stop trying to manipulate me. Don't treat me like some sort of baby. Stop, you are not helping me. I have never felt respected by you only patronized. You call my beliefs science fiction and consider them "cute ideas." I have been quiet about the true extent of which you have offended me over the years. I have tried to be nice with you, but you seem to be completely blind to how you treat believers that you "like."

  It's sad to me to see someone I like turn into someone so far off the rails like this.

  You and all the rationalists in this forum look at believers as second class citizens. Believers who speak up about their faith are not having some sort of mental breakdown they are passionate and forthright and you should respect us for it. If you do not then you will be considered against us. You are part of the problem with this forum, Poopsie, and you need to sit down figure out how you can actually help because I know that's your motivation.

  -Sab
• 

  EntirelyPossible

  She said that what I see as jealousy is actually pity.

  Correct, but you THEN said that she said Shelby is DESERVING of pity, and that she never said. Whoever she was or wasn't speaking for is irrelevant since you misrepresented her statements from the outset.
• 

  poopsiecakes

  Fair enough, Sab. Ciao!
• 

  EntirelyPossible

  Don't treat me like some sort of baby.

  Is there a particular sort of baby you prefer to be treated as? (just kidding!)

  You and all the rationalists in this forum look at believers as second class citizens. Believers who speak up about their faith are not having some sort of mental breakdown they are passionate and forthright and you should respect us for it.

  Well...not exactly. It's more that, speaking only for myself, I can't respect anyone's line of thought that claims, authoritatively, to know what others are thinking, feeling, why they are doing things when they have absolutely no knowledge, experience training or personal contact about the person they are discussing. I can't respect reasoning that claim they are right, end of story because a voice they call god talked to them in their head and any evidence to the contrary is wrong. I can't respect the short circuiting of thought that happens when people use "Because Jesus" as a reason for whatever thing pops into their head and they think Jesus told them.

  Doesn't mean I don't like the person, I just can't respect their thought processes.
• 

  sabastious

  Well, what you ACTUALLY wrote was, "For you, of all people, to scold someone else for relentlessly attacking is incredibly hypocritical ..." If, as you assert, this has nothing to do with anything prior to our current truce, what specifically are you referring to that I have done? I am not misrepresenting you, I am asking for clarity and understanding and attempting to correct you when you say things like I am jealous of Shelby when I am not.

  I cannot give you clearity and understanding because you are wrapped up in jealousy that is transparent to you. I am not trying to attack you and when I originally brought up the jealousy subject I was careful to not name names. I am allowed to have an opinion and so are you.

  Of course the comparison is not legitimate, that's not what I wrote at all. I said your constant assertion that I must be drawn to and jealous of Shelby because I refuse to give in to her erroneous and spiteful behaviours would be the same, analagously, of saying that I must also be drawn to racists orr homphobes because I also refuse to give in to their erroneous and spiteful behaviours.

  Shebly is not spiteful that's just your wrong interpretation of the entirety of her stay with us here. Because you have this glaring misinterpretation of Shelby gives me more evidence of your "issue" involving her. We all have our issues and it's important to indentify them in order to surmount them.

  You still engage with me. You clearly are still drawn to me, an immense, unstoppable attraction that you can neither explain nor control, a seething frothy mixture of hate, jealousy, desire, attraction, rage, all at the same time controlling you, forcing you to engage with me for just the little bit of attention you so desperately crave that I alone can fulfill.

  I still engage with you because I have to. You came back and ignoring you would just mean I am scared of you, which I am not. I will admit I am jealous of your non faith at times. Faith can be a very large distraction to the more immediate matters of life. Without faith you can completely turn to the physical things in your life. I actually do feel jealous of atheists and it's probably what fuels a lot of the malice I have thrown at them. This issue was transparent to me for a while until I discovered it. Now I see how it manifests in my behavior and I am working on remedying the problem. The rationalists on the other hand don't admit the jealousy and therefore it festers and continues to manifest in their behavior unabated.

  -Sab