by N.drew 178 Replies latest watchtower bible
I'm sorry guys. I see NOTHING in Ephesians or in 1 John that anyone doubted Jesus was the promised Messiah (flesh, of course). It talks about love and Christian manners and the spiritual body of believers.
And that it is his NAME, not his manifestation that true believers believe in.
"This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us". 1 John 3:23
N.Drew
The history of christianity is NOT just in the bible.
The gnostic heresies are not explicitly spoke of in the bible, but they were happening.
The whole debate about the Nature of Christ was happening from close the the very beginning.
That many Jews doubted that Christ was the messiah is well attested, that the messiah was NOT thought to be "god incarnate" is well attested, that some doubted that Christ was Man was written about, the soem doubted that Jesus was anythinG OTHER than Man was also written about.
And that it is his NAME, not his manifestation that true believers believe in.
That name was created by his successful entry and exit with mankind. In Christian lore Christ ascends to his throne through humanity. If one doesn't believe this happened then they are lying (according to 1 John 4).
-Sab
Do not put your trust in nobles nor in the sons of earthly man.
I don't, but thank you for trying!
Some info on John's epistles:
http://bible.org/seriespage/background-and-setting-1-john
One doesn't base ones views SOLEY on what others have written or thought or taught BUT one must KNOW what others have written and thought and thaught or else one risks on falling back on the old habits of the JW's.
historically, 1John was written to address the issues in the Ephesian congregation and one of them was the denial ( by those in the congregation) that Christ had indeed come in the flesh ( incarnate) or that he even existed at all (outside the congregation). There were issues that Christ was never really Man and some thought that His ressurected body was NOT flesh and bone, but spirit only.
Yes, I understand that that is what is taught as to what John wrote and why, dear one (again, peace to you!)... perhaps what some even thought he was addressing. But I am not so sure, based on the entire book, and particularly the preceding/succeeding verses:
"Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world. Y OU gain the knowledge of the inspired expression from God by this: every inspired expression that confesses [Jesus] Christ as having come in the flesh originates with God,..."
In other words, YOU gain the knowledge that the inspired expression was from God... by means of its confession of Christ in YOU. This is what Paul meant when he wrote:
"The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit..."
HOLY spirit, then... which is IN us... is what "bears witness" to whether the inspired expression came from God. If one does NOT profess that spirit, however, then the expression did NOT originate with God. And only those who HAVE such spirit... can profess that it is IN them. Hence:
"... every inspired expression that does not confess [Jesus] does not originate with God."
Meaning, every inspired expression that does not confess Christ AS THE SOURCE... does not originate with God. It CANNOT. Thus, it is:
"... the antichrist’s [inspired expression] which YOU have heard was coming, and now it is already in the world."
That "spirit"... is the spirit that DENIES Christ... his spirit... IN the Body... the people... by means of denying his and its indwelling IN people, literally. Which is what these false prophets were doing.
John explains, when he writes:
"Y OU originate with God, little children, and YOU have conquered those [persons], because he that is in union with YOU is greater than he that is in union with the world. They originate with the world; that is why they speak [what proceeds] from the world..,"
Because the spirit of GOD is not IN them... because CHRIST is not in them.
John was adressing these issues ( and others of course), hence his waring against the false prophets and what they were professsing.
It appears, from a reading of the entire letter, that John was addressing the lack of love shown by those who WEREN'T of the Body, but who PROFESSED to be, and so were persecuting those who WERE... by going around teaching falsehoods such as (1) the Christ didn't dwell IN people and perhaps Jah eShua even the Christ, that even so, Christ does/did NOT occupy his Body by means of spirit prior to his return... but would only be "with" them when he returned... in the spirit. John wasy saying that these had "gone out from among them"... because they were never really a PART of them... because they did not profess an occupation/union with/by means of holy spirit but actually DENIED that occupation/union.
By means of this, the congregation was being disrupted and some were being misled, especially into doubting who they were and what they knew. Which is why John admonished them as to those trying to mislead them and REMINDED them that they DID know... that it was the very anointing (occupation) that was teaching them... and so they didn't NEED others to teach them as to these things (who and what they were... why... and by what means). They KNEW... because the spirit IN them TOLD them.
Again, I understand the "historical" direction you were coming from. But I would ask you to go to our Lord and ask HIM if that "history" is accurate. I don't believe, after hearing HIM on the matter, that it is.
Again, peace to you, dear one... and, as always, no intent to contend, but to just share the truth. Which I know doesn't always jibe with "history."
Your servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,
SA
"4. Jeremiah 31:33, 34 and the prophecy there (in light of Psalm 1:2, and particularly as to where the law that is to be "read" would be written... and when... which I concede might require some explanation of at least Luke 22:20; 1 Corinthians 11:25; and Hebrews 8:7-13, if not others); and"
I think Jeremiah 31:34 answers that question
"No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."
and take into consideration Galatians 5:14 "The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself.""
"the law that is to be read" Where do you get that the law "is to be read"? I see no need (I didn't say I see no blessing) for "reading".
What reading is needed for one to love his brother? Christians live by the Spirit, not by reading the law. The law is within them, made part of their nature by God.
Peace
If it is sooo important to understand and confess that Christ came in the flesh (his own) then why is it not mentioned here, do you think?
John 3:18
"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God
It is important to understand he has come in our flesh so that we might learn to walk worthily of him.
"let YOUR will be done"!
How will we know God's will if we are not in union with God?
And how does it mean life or death, love or shame, just to realize that he was a man (once)?
MY answer (and I believe dear N.Drew's) to the first is: All that say Christ has NOT come in the flesh (i.e., has not and so does not occupy the vessels [of flesh] of those in his Body... versus saying that HE did not come in bodily form). Meaning, those who DENY the
anointing/occpuation. That... is the "antichrist. How so? Because the word "christ" (Greek, kristos) MEANS "choosing", "chosen". Thus, these are AGAINST the choosing. Anti-choosing (christ).
I never thought of this verse like that. I was always confused by this verse, because of course, if it is saying 'bodily form', then there are a couple billion people out there who are from christ... even though their actions sometimes (often) refute that. Including all the people over the past two thousand years who have shown by their actions that they do NOT have the spirit, even though they do not deny that Christ has come in the flesh (bodily).
I had not considered that this verse could mean the 'annointing' coming inTO the flesh; the indwelling spirit.
Thank you for sharing, Nancy! And for clarifying to PSac, Shelby, because I still wasn't looking at it like that, and I was confused by this thread.
Peace and love to you all
Tammy
