1 John 4:2

by N.drew 178 Replies latest watchtower bible

AGuest

I hear you on that, too, dear N.Drew (again, peace to you!). Brings to MY mind and heart two things, the first one my dear husband used to always tell me:
"Feel the fear... and do it anyway."
Which leads to the second thing, which is that that is how faith is often manifest: one feels fear... but obeys the spirit... and speaks the truth to those he/she is sent to... anyway. I have personally learned that it is when I take that leap... knowing, though, by means of my FAITH... that our Lord will "catch" me... that I receive the greatest "rewards" (MORE understanding, MORE truth, etc.). I do the work FIRST... in FAITH... and THEN I receive "the reward" - more work.
When I try to play it safe, though... while there may be rewards in that, too, yes, they pale in comparison to those I receive when I take on the "harder" tasks that require GREAT faith. Like putting myself out there, not knowing if/how I will be RECEIVED... but knowing that it's not about me... and MY truth, anyway... but about him... and his.
Do your thing, my sister... as the Spirit directs YOU... and reap the "rewards" he has for YOU.
Again, peace to you!
Your servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,
SA
N.drew

Peace!
Terry

This is a bit like having your Aunt Minnie walk out into the driveway in her bathrobe while you are standing in front of your car with the hood up
and her offering her opinion.
Amateur detectives hope to blunder onto a lead by asking questions actual trained forensic investigators "miss".
Splash of cold water to the face:
1.We don't have the actual words of bible writers because we don't have actual bible manuscripts by the authors themselves. What we have
is what comes from having word-of-mouth communication passed around for years and THEN, somebody wrote it down.
2.We don't have what THAT somebody wrote down. We have what was copied from somebody's COPY.
3.Comprehending MEANING is interpreting. To even begin to interpret something in another language is problematic. BUT-the language of thousands of years ago...already "repeated" and recopied and transcribed and such.....well, that's a tough nut.
4.Unless you are acquainted with the ethos of the 1st century and the philosophy, religion, politics and apologetics of that time---how can any amateur
interpreter come out a winner?
I'm just saying.....we may as well be trying to build a rocket to Mars using stuff we find in a junk yard.
N.drew

No, it's a scroll rolled up. Some of us are in it. So to touch any part of it does not need a span.
That said, I shall clue you in about what "the savior" means. World needs a leader to lead world out of the great tribulation or from another perspective "babylon the great".
It is now.
So then we can "interpret" the words (with help from Biblos, or whatever) by matching the words with 1. the hope 2. the love 3. the need 4. the Christ 5. the rest of the words and 6. everything else (except politics-I hate politics)
Please do not call my Best Friend "junk".
It hardly matters that there was "philosophy, religion, politics, apologetics" at that time because they were talking about OUR time. Get a clue.
AGuest

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, dear Terry (peace to you!), even you. Even Aunt Minnie, whom I don't think you should assume doesn't know anything about what's under the hood. Lots of girls (including those who just happen to be aunts) do! Indeed, just because you're under the hood doesn't mean YOU know a thing about what's going on under there. Indeed, she might know a little more than you. Sure, she maybe should have put on some clothese before coming out... maybe. But I'd wager you'd not have a problem if it was Uncle John out there in HIS bathrobe... giving you "advice." Aunts can be mechanically-inclined, indeed, quite savvy, too!
As for the rocket to Mars, one of my favorite childhood books was "Flight to the Mushroom Planet." Two kids meet a "physicist" from a tiny planet between earth and the moon... and with his help build a spaceship in a cave from "junk"... and go there! WONDERFUL adventure!
Reminds me of the admonition regarding "becom[ing] as a small child", dear one...
Peace... and don't try to "rain" on our little "parade", here... 'cause it's YOUR feet what might get wet.
A slave of Christ,
SA
PSacramento

So, PS what are you saying? Some people are still waiting for the manifestation of The Lord but the scripture says he who does not confess Christ is IN US is the antichrist. Obviously.
Actually you are looking at TWO sepeart issues that John wa dealing with.
1) those that claimed that Christ NEVER was ( sound familiar?)
2) Those that claim Christ has come in the flesh can only claim that if the HS of CHirst is IN them.
Like Shelby mentioned above, Paul echos this very thing when He says that those that confess that Christ is lord are sealed by the HS.
The two issues were:
1) Who is the antichrist - answer: All that say that Christ has not come in the flesh
2) Who can say that Chist has come and why? - Answer those that are IN Christ by virture of His Holy Spirit.
AGuest

Forgive me, dear PSacto (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!), but I think dear N.Drew (again, peace to you!) is saying something a bit different as to your first "answer"... and I must agree with her. You posted (and please ignore my caps - they're only emphasis):
1) Who is the antichrist - answer: All that say that Christ has not come in the flesh
MY answer (and I believe dear N.Drew's) to the first is: All that say Christ has NOT come in the flesh (i.e., has not and so does not occupy the vessels [of flesh] of those in his Body... versus saying that HE did not come in bodily form). Meaning, those who DENY the anointing/occpuation. That... is the "antichrist. How so? Because the word "christ" (Greek, kristos) MEANS "choosing", "chosen". Thus, these are AGAINST the choosing. Anti-choosing (christ).
The confusion exists because "someone" "decided" that the word meant "against God" (which would be anti-theos, actually)... and since that "someone" ASSUMES... trinitarily... that God and Christ are the same... erroneously interpreted it to mean "against Christ" himself. It is, of course, because to deny the anointing IS a denial of choosing of some BY Christ. But the verse doesn't mean being against Christ literally. It is being against the choosing BY Christ.
2) Who can say that Chist has come and why? - Answer those that are IN Christ by virture of His Holy Spirit.
This is TRUE: only those who have RECEIVED such an indwelling/occupation CAN say that he has come... and made his abode in THEM. Otherwise, it's a LIE... and [potentially] blasphemy. It is also why some who CLAIM to have received such "anointing" cannot explain/articulate/or MANIFEST it to others. Because it ISN'T true - it has not actually occurred for them!
I hope this helps, dear one. Of course, I understand that "theology" may not teach this; however, I think that if you asked Christ for a little holy spirit, through that HE would reveal the truth of it to you. Which might give you something to share with others who might not yet know, themselves.
In the "spirit" of Acts 18:24-26... I offer these truths and, again, with you peace!
YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,
SA
PSacramento

I see your point Shel ( Love to you always my sister)and Yes I agree in that context, but my point is that historically, 1John was written to address the issues in the Ephesian congregation and one of them was the denial ( by those in the congregation) that Christ had indeed come in the flesh ( incarnate) or that he even existed at all ( outside the congregation).
There were issues that Christ was never really Man and some though that His ressurected body was NOT flesh and bone, but spirit only.
John was adressing these issues ( and others of course), hence his waring against the false prophets and what they were professsing.
sabastious

1 John 4
On Denying the Incarnation
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.
I just wanted to give my two cents on the subject (surprised, eh?). The NIV breaks up many parts of the Bible into logical titled partitions, in this case "On denying the Incarnation." I don't give much credence to them beyond rough paraphrase, but it's the actual text partitions that I really enjoy about the NIV translation. As a writer I like to take in "whole peices" at a time. Vs's 1 to 6 are definitely part of a singular "piece" so-to-speak and at that point the title of it would be subject to interpretation.
Vs 6 seems to be a "concluding sentence":
We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.
The conclusion paints a very black and white picture. God and his side and the side that is against God. It says that the way to tell the difference is one will be telling truth and the other falsehood.
Now back up to vs 2:
This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God
The writer is saying that there is only one piece of evidence that is accounted for and that's belief in Christ, as a spirit being, coming into the flesh. If Christ did indeed come, regardless of what made it through history, then that is the truth. If something is within us, as AGuest is proposing, then we ought to believe that that something also could have sent a Christ in our flesh to redeem us.
So in the context of testing spirit beings, and within the Christian belief set, if a spirit doesn't acknowledge the truth, which is that Christ died for us, then they are part of the antichrist and that you probably shouldn't trust it.
-Sab
PSacramento

Sab said it better than I did !
Damn you !!!
;)

1 John 4:2

1 John 4

On Denying the Incarnation

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