1 John 4:2 (page 13)

N.drew

Yes, I mean why would I do that? It's such a weird mistake, maybe it's important.

N.drew

something in a chain.

I reminds me in words what the sheep on the right hand means.

And it's my thread. Thank you dear Shelby, you are my friend.

To be for God one must show mercy. (To show mercy one must be in union with God, but that's what the thread is about- I think it's OK to joke, I hope so anyway)

That was a joke.

To complete the race one must continue being merciful with everyone else. And they who make it difficult (even impossible) to have mercy shown them are the goats. They who continue in a way that it is not impossible to have mercy shown them are the sheep. Because the sons of God are they who show mercy. Sheep make it a pleasure for the sons of God to show mercy to thus the illustration of giving help and refreshment to the least one of God's people.

I think so anyway.

It bothers you that I know something. It bothers me too.

OR

Does it bother you that I know something different? It's kind of obvious why I know, if I'm right.

bob1999

"Romans 9:15 means God is he who shows mercy to whomever he wills (God is judge). "

Romans 8:29,30 I think Romans 9:15 means it is God's choice to show mercy on the ones he foreknew, predestined, called, justified and will glorify.

And that his choice had nothing, at all, to do with mans will or works. Romans 9:10 "...and had done nothing either good or bad...."

Salvation is not, as you say, something man does or something man chooses.

Peace

N.drew

I think "he foreknew" means he knew them before they knew him.

N.drew

Salvation is not something someone chooses?

Has Christ suffered for nothing?

bob1999

"Has Christ suffered for nothing?"

No, not at all. Christ died for his sheep. Christ did not suffer and die for those that would never chose him. He died for the ones he knew would.

Peace

N.drew

Romans 8:29,30 I think Romans 9:15 means it is God's choice to show mercy on the ones he foreknew, predestined, called, justified and will glorify

Your veiwpoint means that Judas was not one chosen because he wasn't justified and glorified.

Who was Judas? According to your logic Jesus knew he would not succeed. The Lord I know does not do that.

PSacramento

Predestination and the elect is a very "controverisal" thing and the issue is that it has been interpreted to mean a few different things over the centuries ( See: Calvanisim, molinisim and so forth).

N.drew

No bob. then God does enjoy world's suffering according to you. Because IT IS WRITTEN "will the faith really be found?" Why would the word ask that if God already knows who will choose him? And if it is possible (it was and probably is but I don't think so) that the faith will NOT endure, then why are we still here bob?

bob1999

In your understanding Christ DID die for those that would not chose him. In your understanding Christ did die (in part) in vain.

You make God and Christ to be ineffective and inefficient. God and Christ are never ineffectual.

If just one of the persons that Christ die for is not saved, in the end, then Christ is a failure.

But Christ is not a failure and John 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.

Romans 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So if an angel can not separate us from God, how in the world can you think that we can separate ourselves?

Christ died for us, his sheep, and there's nothing we can do to make his sacrifice ineffectual.

Peace

1 John 4:2

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