1 John 4:2 (page 16)

bob1999

"Hopefully, you will find that truth"

I don't understand why you keep saying that.

I have already told you that I have been saved by God through Christ.

None of what we have talked about and disagreed about has anything to do with salvation.

If you seek God you must have already had your heart changed by the Spirit.

If I seek God my heart must have already been changed by the Spirit.

Natural man (fallen man whose heart has not been changed by the Spirit) does not, can not seek after God.

I believe that both of us seek after God.

Peace

N.drew

I believe salvation isn't a one time deal with the god. It's a journey. A person chooses to take the journey or not. A person chooses to stay on the journey or not.

And then, I think there is a difference between "seek after God" and finding God. "They will know me".

But knowing God is just the start of the journey with God. (perhaps there are two decisions to make to endure to the end; finding the invitation and keeping it)

I do not believe this what you said "to seek God one's heart must already be changed by the spirit". How so?

love joy peace patience kindness goodness faith mildness self control

You might be right but how you communicate it might be wrong bob.

Because you say your salvation is in the written word (or so it seems) you are misleading anyone who is starting on the journey. I believe anyone is welcome to the journey, and everyone is being called to it. But the danger is putting faith in anything but the Spirit of God.

The Father knows who will endure to the end. It is that one who is true to the spirit. Is that what you mean Bob?

I would not discourage anyone from running the race because they might not endure and thus NOT be saved. Because the world will be a better place if people take the journey than not take it. And if they die, so what? We should expect to die.

Good works ARE NOT IN VAIN, unless the works are in association with the lie.

Can we lie without knowing it? Of course. That is what the written word is good for. To keep us in line.

N.drew

Thankgod I'm not a secretary!

bob1999

According to 1 John 5:13 those that believe in the name of the Son of God have eternal life.

1 John 5:13

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

According to Romans 8:38 nothing can separate the believer from the love of God in Christ.

"And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God's love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow--not even the powers of hell can separate us from God's love."

Seeking after God is not something that natural man can do. He needs to be born again first. Being born again is something that the Spirit does. Not something that man does.

Ezekiel 36:26

"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh."

"I will give..." "I will remove..." This is God taking action, not man.

John 3:3

In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

1 Corinthians 2:14

"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."

If salvation was left up to man, if it is man's choice, then all men would be lost. For man, without God's Spirit changing his heart, would not, indeed can not, choose God.

Peace

N.drew

Why then is it written God loved the world so that God will save the world through his Son? John 3:16

EVERLASTING LIFE: age-long, and therefore: practically eternal, unending; partaking of the character of that which lasts for an age, as contrasted with that which is brief and fleeting.

So that (whomever) will no longer live for themselves, but for him who dies for us. All of us.

And Romans 8:38 is not technical, it means do not fear there is anything stronger than the LOVE that GOD has shown and accomplished by Christ the Lord.

It is not fixed. It is the confidence that believers can have. (because again then, what separated Judas, if it can't possibly be done?).

N.drew

1 John 5:13. The Name of The Son means forever because the son does not die.

bob1999

(because again then, what separated Judas, if it can't possibly be done?).

Where do you read that Judas had his heart changed? Where (when) was Judas born again?

1 John 5:13 Means exactly what it says. Believers HAVE eternal life. Eternal life = eternal salvation.

From reading what you have wrote I am lead to believe that you think man decides what God accomplishes?

Peace

"Then the LORD God said, "Look, the human beings have become like us, knowing both good and evil. What if they reach out, take fruit from the tree of life, and eat it? Then they will live forever!""

How do we eat from the tree of life? Is it our doing or God's?

Peace

1 John 4:2

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