1 John 4:2

by N.drew 178 Replies latest watchtower bible

N.drew

Why would that make a difference bob, if you are right and salvation can't be chosen but is chosen by God for only for God's elect?
OR are you saying that those in union with Christ who have been given a portion (like Moses) of saving power? If your talking about the the power to save, then I understand. If you are talking about being saved, then I think we have no more words. OK.
"Maybe God is trying to teach you something". bob1999's words, not mine.
God does not "try", even according to you bob. Why not find the harmony in yourself bob?
AGuest

You say "Why look to it?" And then you want me to look at John 3:14 and Numbers 21:7-9 You ask why I look at it and then you tell me to look at it?
Because unfortunately, dear one (good morning and peace to you!)... your own "hard-heartedness" won't let you HEAR... so as to put faith in what CHRIST said... and is SAYING (to all those WITH ears to hear). And so, perhaps you will get it... if you SEE it. Shouldn't HAVE to see it, no... because if you are who you claim to be, you would be walking by faith and NOT by sight. But since you apparently don't "recall" that he said what he did... and what that referred to... as demonstrated by your looking at something OTHER than him (i.e., the Bible)... and not HEARING him say it (by means of holy spirit), you left me no choice but to send you BACK... to the "tutor/pedagogue." Let IT teach you as to these things... since you're not quite ready to be taught by the True Rabboni, himself. Would that that were not the case... or the necessity.
" belief... is not faith" I use those words interchangeably. Maybe I shouldn't.
Indeed, you shouldn't. To do so is VERY misleading... even AWAY from Christ and, hence, from God. A LOT of power in words... which is why we should be VERY careful with them. We're supposed to use them "aright". Gotta know what they MEAN, then, to do that.
I have faith in God and Christ. BTW That faith was given to me by God.
If you had faith in EITHER you would KNOW that what Christ said was and is TRUE: that he would die, then raise up and live again... and go HIMSELF before his sheep... who would need NO OTHER leader or master or teacher... but rely on the holy spirit... the spirit of TRUTH, and hence HIS spirit (because HE is the Truth, is he not?)... which the Father would give us... IN HIS NAME... and THROUGH him... such that that SPIRIT would teach us... and not Paul, Tommy, Vincent, Leroy, John. You would KNOW this... because you HAD faith... in the One(s) who SAID it... that what they said was TRUE... regardless of what other [men] may teach you! If you had faith in EITHER of these... you would KNOW that neither the Most Holy One of Israel, nor His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel... NEED A BOOK... to speak to you... but that BOTH have the POWER and AUTHORITY to speak to you themselves... DIRECTLY. Because you would have EARS [brought on by faith] TO hear them:
If you had faith... then you would BELIEVE in the fulfillment of the gifts/acts/purpose OF the spirit, including but not necessarily limited to:
"There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spiritdistributes them. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledgeby means of the same Spirit, to another faithby the same Spirit, to another gifts of healingby that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to anotherdistinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines." 1 Corinthians 12:4-11
Some Bible versions set forth "distingushing between spirits," as "discerning spirits"... or even "hearing spirits." If one cannot go directly TO that Spirit so as to understand what those gifts actually are/do... one should at least research the Greek word used, diakrisis.
If one did, one would also understand what my Lord MEANT... when he stated, through David:
"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire—
but my ears you have opened—" Psalm 40:6
I don't hide my gifts, dear bob... nor will I. To do so would be the deny the very Spirit that gave it to me... and the means by which such gifts operate: the spirit of God, holy spirit. Both would be blasphemy... which, to the best of MY ability... and by the love and mercy of God... I would NEVER do. So people don't "like" it. Not much I can do about that, save telling them what THEY want to hear... or stop professing as to what they don't. Won't... can't... do it. And won't apologize for that to anyone.
Again, peace to you!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
ShadesofGrey

If there are different gifts, SA, why do you seem to put down anyone who does not have the same gift as you?
tec

I don't think she does this, Shades. But she is put down, herself, by those who deny that she might have been given a gift. That such a gift might even exist to begin with.
Not everyone has the same gift. That is true. But instead of assuming that someone else is wrong, crazy, lying, even 'demon-possessed', whatever... then perhaps we should consider that such person might belong to Christ, and have been given that which she shares?
That doesn't mean follow that person, or even take their word for it. Just consider it, perhaps, and go to Christ ourselves. Shelby has not stated otherwise.
As for Bob, I understand his reluctance. No one teaches that this gift could be real (though it is written about in the bible). And no one wants to be fooled (again). But we know that such gifts can be given. So perhaps the focus should be more upon what is being said and if there is truth in that (that we can ask Christ and God about ourselves, or feel the truth in our spirit); and less upon the person sharing what she hears? (Though the person, herself, is dear to me, and truthful, and speaks in love for Christ and others.)
Shelby is not trying to be mean. Just truthful, in the hopes that someone (such as Bob) might hear and go to Christ, Himself, in faith. And perhaps ask to hear as well, which might not be possible if one does not have faith that it IS possible.
Peace to you as always, Shades... and to your loved ones.
Tammy
N.drew

Dear Shades ALL the gifts are FOR TRUTH. Because without truth one can do nothing for the kingdom.
So when Shelby sees that a poster is posting opposed to truth she tries to correct the error. When her humanity shows through some of her posts people have cried "foul". That's not fair. But if you "hate" her why not think about what the Lord said before the hate becomes rooted? "they hated me first".
Before I read dear Tammy's post I was thinking about, what is the sin?
I have a theory.
When a person becomes aware of their folly they tend to look for reasons for it. Many times their conscious directs them to another person for the fault. "You made me do (such and such)". And very rarely it is so, but most of the time it is the sinners' own fault. Blaming another for one's own self being misguided is what is WRONG.
Anyone progressing in the Lord's wisdom will know that our own sin is our own.
Blaming someone else is keeping us from finding forgiveness and correction.
Bless Shelby (poor thing) because her gift is very very hard to share, is it not?
But she does it anyway. We should be proud of her, not embarrassed by her.
AGuest

If there are different gifts, SA, why do you seem to put down anyone who does not have the same gift as you?
All the gifts are beneficial, dear shades (the greatest of love and peace to you!)... and, as dear tec stated (the greatest of love and peace to you, as well... and thank you, truly, love!)... I don't put down others' gifts, not at all. Even those who share God's spirit disagree[d], even exchange[d][seemingly "harsh"] words between them. As dear N.Drew (the greatest of love and peace to you, and thank you, TOO, dear one!) pointed out, when that occurs it can be the person's "nature" coming through.
That is not what occurred here, though, although, I sincerely apologize if you perceived it that way. Perhaps the operative word here is "seem". What you're suggesting can result from what dear N.Drew suggested, yes. It can also result from a [mis]perception of oneself (perhaps as having been "wronged" in some manner, when such was not the case)... of others ("who does she think she is?!"), which, for me, is no one and nothing more that a good-for-nothing-servant, even yours... and of another's "zeal"... and honesty.
With regard to this thread, the latter doesn't come from me, truly - I would be lying to you if I said it did. It comes... and came... from my Lord. HIS zeal and honesty... borne out in HIS truth. (Psalm 69:9; 119:139; John 2:17) Thus, MY spirit reacted as HIS spirit did... in responding to some of the comments made. When that happens (at least, for ME) there are some things that I just CANNOT mince words with... because it would be changing HIS words/spirit/zeal. And I can't do that. As dear bob (peace to you, as well!) himself pointed out:
" Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar." Proverbs 30:6
"See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it." Deuteronomy 12:32
Because many believe "his words" are those written in the Bible they ASSUME that this is referring to what one reads ("in the Bible")... as opposed to what one HEARS... directly from the Spirit (Christ). Because they don't believe (i.e., lack faith)... that he IS the Spirit... OR that he SPEAKS... they take offense at what he says, as well as how he says it. Yet, he does speak... and NOT through a book. Even that book says this:
"YOU have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, because they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned to death." The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear. YOU have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, to [Jesus] the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who speaks to us from heaven?" Hebrews 12:18-25
Problem is that most think "heaven" is somewhere up in the sky and so can't reconcile this truth: they are looking for a voice from the sky. The Most Holy One of Israel, Christ His Son... and the "kingdom"... are not in the sky: they... indeed, the kingdom, if you belong to God... through Christ... is INSIDE you... IN you. Because that is where God and Christ DWELL: IN you. In your blood and bones... by means of GOD'S blood: holy spirit. His blood "mixes" with yours... by means of Christ... so that you... and they... become "one." That is the "adoption" and "sonship."
Given that, I can no more deny that spirit than I could just stop taking breaths. And, in light of the verses dear bob shared, I don't dare say it any different than he did to ME... or directs me to share it with others. Sometimes I may ask "Is that what/how you TRULY want me to say [it], Lord?" And sometimes IS given a bit gentler. Usually, it depends on who's being addressed... and what THEY said/demanded/accused as to HIM.
Either way, I obey HIS spirit, dear one. And sometimes, ones are going to "hear" zeal, ardor, and a little more than pacivity IN those words. Such one should not hurry themselves in their spirit to take offense, though. Because none is intended. When it is (and that is rare, an intention to offend)... it is from ME... and I make sure folks know it is ME, and NOT my Lord.
I hope this helps, dear shadesone, and... again... peace to you!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
bob1999

" "Maybe God is trying to teach you something". bob1999's words, not mine.
God does not "try", even according to you bob. Why not find the harmony in yourself bob?"
Sorry, I mis-spoke. I should have said, maybe God is teaching you something.
"But if you "hate" her why not think about........"
I don't hate anybody.
I think she is wrong about the bible not being God's written word but I don't hate her for it.
The one thing that stands out, to me, in this thread is when both you and AGuest argue that the bible is not God's written word, by quoting the bible.
Isn't that a little ironic?
Peace
N.drew

The Bible is heaven's (spiritual) message. The Word means It Will Be Done. The Bible by itself can't do anything, so it's not THE WORD.
"You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me",
John 5:39
"If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid.
John 5:31
Do you know the difference between the message and the originator of the message? The message does not egual the originator. The originator is MORE THAN the message.
The Bible is the message.
N.drew

I didn't say you hated Shelby.
AGuest

Isn't that a little ironic?
What's ironic, dear bob (again, peace to you!) is that folks keep saying the Bible is God's Word... when THE BIBLE SAYS... what... or rather, WHO... that Word is. It's like a book saying "Barak Obama is the President of the United States"... and folks like you going, "The history book is the President of the United States!" Even, "We can learn more about what it's like to BE President by reading this book... than we can from asking someone who IS the President!"
It's ironic because... such people claim to have "holy spirit". Seeing as THE BIBLE SAYS that:
1. God would write His law on HEARTS... and NOT in it, the Bible, a mere book; and
2. That the holy spirit is what will lead into ALL truth and is the means by which ones are TAUGHT...
then, putting reading, reviewing, and searching through the Bible, a book that speaks about the Son, the One God appointed and told us to LISTEN to... BEFORE going to and listening to that SON... is ironic. Yes. Indeedy. Absolutely. As well as lacking faith. Hence, my reason to keep referring TO it: for those who LACK FAITH.
For some reason, some folks, including perhaps you... seem to feel that a mere book somehow out-authorizes the One is speaks about.
But you go on, dear one: search the scriptures. Do that... please... rather than what the Bible SAYS to do:
"You search the scriptures because you THINK that by means of THEM... you will have everlasting life. And these are the very ones that bear witness to me. YET... you do not want to come to ME that you may have life." John 5:39, 40
So, go ahead. Search away. You will find all kinds of tidbits of "wisdom" and pithy sayings. And more. You will ALSO find, though, one day, that your "search" is NOT what will lead to life. Because it is only FINDING... and being found BY... the One the scriptures "bear witness TO"... that can give you that. Hopefully, you will find that truth... as well as find and by found BY the Truth (John 14:6)... sooner... than later.
Again, peace to you!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA

1 John 4:2

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