Last Night's Intervention

by brotherdan 154 Replies latest jw friends

  • just a reader
    just a reader

    Don't know if this one was already mentioned here.

    "Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah p. 216

  • Ice cream
    Ice cream

    DEBATOR, have you read COC, COAC, ISOCF or CCMC? If not you're in no position to comment on them, especially not labelling them Propaganda!

    WASBLIND, your posts make me laugh .

  • moomanchu

    I wonder if DEBATOR is related to MASTER .

  • moomanchu
  • wasblind

    I'm glad ice cream,

    you will find a lot of posters on here who will

    get you though a rough day with a laugh

    i only been on here a short while myself

    and i have grown very fond of the posters

    here even when we find ourselves at odds

  • GLTirebiter

    Brotherdan, you did just fine talking to Sister Pioneer. Keep up your studying, now they know about you and want to stumble you back into their grasp. I suspect you soon will encounter bigger guns, Elder guns. Remember that logic and sense aren't in their game plan. Let this thread to be your training camp for dealing with that! Prepare yourself, be strong, and don't let them intimidate you.

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep
    Instead I spent 3 hours defending myself against a cult!

    You need to learn how to control the conversation. They should quickly end up defending their cult.

    Never make a statement you have to prove with a source they don't trust, esp. apostate sources. There is plenty in the WTs to use, you just need to know how to find it quickly.

    607?? Just ask them to write you up a list of Neo-Babylonian kings showing which kings reigned in each year & quoting their sources. Don't tell them anything. Let them do the work. All you need to know is how to keep them honest and on topic.

    607 is full of red herrings and faulty logic for them to sidetrack you with. Ignore them all. If the king list falsifies 607, they need to explain why they can't make their king list add up. You don't have to explain anything. You can take them down town and show them a library riddled with books backing 586/7. If you are near London, you can take them to the British Museum where they can make fools of themselves in front of the guides and the curator.

    If they make a claim about a WT prophesy/article/whatever that you suspect is untrue, immediately get them to promise to find the article to prove it and never let them conveniently forget it on a later visit.

    If you wish to show them a WT article that contradicts what they have said............ Make them read it to you. Do not explain it......... Make them explain it to you.

    Telling a cult member something they don't want to hear is a waste of time, they just block it out. You want them to tell you they are wrong. They can't do that if you are doing all the talking.

    Ask questions.

    Don't answer theirs.

    Stay on topic. One subject. One subject. One subject. One subject. One subject. Drown them in one subject, don't paddle in ten. If they want to change the subject ............. you have the right subject ......... there isn't a better one ........ hammer it home with questions.



  • debator

    Hi everyone.

    While I can see you have all been tempted to pidgeonhole "prophet" as someone that says inspired prophetic words from God concerning events to happen but this is going against the bible's greater usage of the word "prophet"

    By trying to pigeonhole a 'prophet" into the role of a predictor. This allows you to point at Witnesses attempts at Chronology, and point out where mistakes have been made.

    This is convienent because this allows the people who are against witnesses to immediatly reject all things from the WTS based on a label they have invented for witnesses.

    However, they never claimed to be predictors. Duet 18 makes it clear it has to be an inspired prediction directly spoke to them by God from his words..

    Another function of a prophet is to warn others.

    Ezekiel and Jeremiah warned of impending judgement. JW do this as well, by acting as "watchman" in the same way Ezekiel was given this role.

    JW warn of impending Armegeddon (which is after all a biblical teaching)and give out the message to become reconciled to Jehovah. In that way they act as prophets.

    There was the time when Jesus breathed holy spirit onto the Apostles. That made them error free right? they werer also prophets yet...

    No, but wait! They then went on to promulgate a false teaching. They came to believe that Jesus had prophesied the future of Apostle John and they he would never die.

    So they must have been false prophets, telling people that in the future John would never die when we all know that John *did* die.

    Did the holy spirit make a mistake when they promulgated that false teaching? They were prophets and unlike witnesses could also predict the future but did both these make them false prophets when they promulgated a mistaken understanding from Jesus's word about john? no.

    I have enjoyed this discussion too because people can see the clear steps when you all had to accept the bible in Deut 18 makes it clear witnesses do not claim to prophetic inspired words from Jehovah. You then have to retrench to another position aka they call themselves "prophets" so any mistakes they make are false teachings aka false prophecy according to you when this is against Deut 18 and pidgeonholes a prophet to being a predictor only.

    Some then try and condemn using the watchtowers (no longer able to use the bible) proof texting articles which themselves explain they in no way claim to make inspired predictions and only say understandings they have drawn from Bible prophecies and chronology.

    I am not the one retrenching and repositioning the goal posts on this topic my position is the same now as it was at the beginning. According to Deut 18 God's own word they are not false prophets.

  • boyzone


    Deut 18 makes no distinction between making an original prophesy or interpreting one already existing. Its just says if you claim to speak for God and your message doesn't come true - you're a false prophet.

    Do the Watchtower claim to speak for God? Yes. They claims to speak exclusively for God, claims to be Spirit-directed by Him. They offer those "predictions" up as New Light from Jehovah many millions of times over, on a worldwide stage and then bring into question a brother's faithfulness and spirituality if he dares to voice doubts in the latest understanding with a possible outcome of being disfellowshipped and shunned.

    Your clear desire to twist the Deut scripture tells everyone here that you are still captive to that basic concept that the WT Society is God's Organization, a concept that MUST be defended by you at all costs. You see - we know how and why you think as you do - we've all been there.

  • debator

    Hi boyzone

    You are mistaken.

    Deuteronomy 18:18 (New International Version)

    18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.

    Deut 18 is dealing with inspired prophecy only and how do I know definitely? It is also a future prediction for the messiah himself. He is the prophet raised from among the people who will say inspired prophecies and how to recognise he is the real thing. Jews understood Deut 18 to be talking about the ability to be inspired of God.

    The apostles and Nathan both claimed to speak for God and unlike witnesses had access to the ability to be inspired both these made mistakes concerning predictions and according to the bible where not condemned as false prophets the bible allows for misunderstandings but according to your nitpicking they would have to be condemned as false prophets as well.

    You guys have argued yourselves into an impossible postion of expecting perfection from imperfection.

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