Do you believe it is true, that an imperfect human or group of humans would not be infallible in matters of interpretation or prophecy?
Nazi Propaganda: Propaganda Techniques
by alice.in.wonderland 116 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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yknot
Oh Alice.....
If you want NT here ya go: Explain in full consideration of WT history and development.
(Galatians 1:6-9) 6 I marvel that YOU are being so quickly removed from the One who called YOU with Christ’s undeserved kindness over to another sort of good news. 7 But it is not another; only there are certain ones who are causing YOU trouble and wanting to pervert the good news about the Christ. 8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said above, I also now say again, Whoever it is that is declaring to YOU as good news something beyond what YOU accepted, let him be accursed.
Try and actually answer this without copy/paste or insulting commentary.
Remember people can agree to disagree and still be civil if not good friends!
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Mary
Oh lordie......I am just seeing this thread now. Alice's bizarre attempt at comparing my Miracle Wheaties to Nazism reveals the depths of her delusions. Charlie Russell was a false prophet. No matter what kind of bullshit you and other JW apologetics try pulling out of a hat, he fit the description of what Deuteronomy describes as a 'false prophet'. It makes absolutely no difference how sincere he might have been as Deuteronomy does not say "well, if they're really sincere, Jehovah will just look the other way!"
In fact, according to the WTS's own teachings, it matters not one bit if someone is 'sincere'. Check it out for yourself:
"No matter how sincere a person may be, presumptuousness and disobedience never win God's favor."---December 15, 1983 Watchtower p. 6
"Hence, the courageous course is being adopted not in sincerity alone, but on the basis of reliable information, correct knowledge. And this under trustworthy guidance, better than the guidance of "valueless gods." The correctness of the course is proved by the fact that it was foretold in a prophecy that has turned out to be no lie but the truth."----Watchtower December 15, 1972 p. 742 par. 5
"...In the all-important matter of worshiping God, it is likewise true that sincerity alone does not guarantee that God is pleased with our worship. We may conscientiously believe we are doing well in this regard, yet we may be deluding ourselves." -----Watchtower January 1, 1964 p. 4 Will Sincerity Alone Please God?
"Since the Bible was completed and "inspiration" is no longer necessary, a true prophet is one who is faithfully proclaiming what is written in the Bible.......It matters not whether he proclaims his message with deliberate, willful and malicious intent to deceive, or whether he is the blinded and deluded dupe of Satan and hence unwittingly used of him. In either case, he is a false prophet and hence the agent of Satan".------The Watchtower May 15, 1930, p 154
"...Merely sincerely accepting and following a religious organization will not guarantee God's approval and protection through this world's end. Sincerity, conviction, or intensity of devotion will not change falsehood into truth..."------Watchtower October 15, 1960 pp. 614-615
"...sincerity alone does not purify someone of wrong teachings..."-----Awake! February 2006 p. 13
"For our worship to be acceptable to God, sincerity is not only desirable but also essential. Yet, note that sincerity alone is not enough. It must be complemented with truth........For us to be acceptable to God, our sincere beliefs must be based on accurate information."-----Watchtower February 1, 2003 p. 32"The man who wants to please God must be sincere. But sincerity alone does not make one's religion approved in God's eyes."------Watchtower March 15, 1969 p. 166
"A religion that teaches lies cannot be true."------Watchtower 1991 December 1, p. 7
So as per usual Alice, you statements fall flat on their face. Uncle Charlie Russell was a false prophet plain and simple. Nothing---not one single thing that he ever predicted came true. And nothing that Rutherfraud, Knorr or Franz ever predicted ever came true either. They were all false prophets. If your pea-brain can't handle that, then that's your problem.
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Black Sheep
There's nothing that should suggest that any imperfect human or group of humans in the last days should be infallible (immune from liability to error or failure) in matters of interpretation or prophecy.
If the Watchtower and the Catholic Church are allowed to be fallible in interpretation or prophecy, then it matters not if either of them have faulty doctrines and members of either church shouldn't be bashing each other over those differences.
I see you have noticed that the Catholic's view of Papal Infallibility is very similar to the WT's view of itself.
Cheers
Chris
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sooner7nc
Alice you have a PM
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GLTirebiter
Alice, thank you for the reasoned response, I appreciate that!
The Mosaic Law was replaced with the New Covenant.
Christ did not come to "abolish the Law or the Prophets", "but to complete them" (Matthew 5:17-20). The New Covenant removes the call for physical death of false prophets, but false prophecy is sinful under the New Covenant as well as the Old, and will be punished by spiritual death in the world to come.
Christians are to turn away from false prophets and their teachings, which should be "cut down and thrown on the fire" (Matthew 7:15-20). This is repeated in Matthew 12:36-37: "for every unfounded word people utter they will answer on Judgement Day". False prophecy is a sin, for which false prophets will answer to God on the last day.
The Gospels provide other admonitions against false prophecy, including Luke 21:8 and Mark 13:21-23. New Testament scripture is clear: do not follow false prophets, do not believe what they say, do not fear their warnings.
There's nothing that should suggest that any imperfect human or group of humans in the last days should be infallible (immune from liability to error or failure) in matters of interpretation or prophecy.
The men who speak are not infallible themselves. It is the Holy Spirit speaking through the apostles who gives truth which came from the Son, who in turn knows it from the Father (John 14:6-18, 15:26-27, 16:12-15, Luke 10:16).
By the way, your quotation from the Wiki regrading Papal infallibility is much more accurate than the popular notion that "the Pope can do no wrong". Ex Cathedra proclamations are rare: "An infallible pronouncement ... usually is made only when some doctrine has been called into question", and (from another article) ""No doctrine is understood to be infallibly defined unless it is clearly established as such."
You reply includes an assumption that we are now living in "the last days". That assumption must be examined also, but that's a topic for a later date and a different thread.
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Mad Dawg
Alice said:
While under the direction of God's Spirit, none of Jehovah's Witnesses, the Governing Body included receive any divine revelations that explain Bible matters.
Fair enough. Please tell me where in the Bible it allows blood fractions.
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alice.in.wonderland
Mary, the focal point of this discussion is propaganda tools in its various forms (pamphlets, broadsheets, books, etc) for the purpose of demonizing or defaming the character of an organization or class of people.
And now with the internet:
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20000622/article_01.htm
"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Attributed to MARK TWAIN.
The Nazi party were the most note-worthy propaganda artists of the twentieth century and they persecuted Jehovah's Witnesses, that's is why they came to mind.
“It makes absolutely no difference how sincere he might have been as Deuteronomy does not say "well, if they're really sincere, Jehovah will just look the other way!"
Sincerity is one of the most important aspects of a person's personalty as far as Jehovah's concerned and has direct application in numerous scriptures. I didn't say this in its self qualifies a person to act as God's spokesmen or a prophet.
You pass off what I say as "bullshit" not withstanding the fact you have absolutely no explanation as to how the Bible and prophetic events are to be interpreted and explained. You don't have a leg to stand on.
So the disciples came up and said to him: “Why is it you speak to them by the use of illustrations?” In reply he said: “To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the kingdom of the heavens, but to those people it is not granted. Matthew 13:10-11
Here Jesus is speaking directly to his disciples, and as a perfect man he could explain all matters with perfection. In ancient Israel, Jehovah communicated through other means:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_writing_on_the_wall
"The writing on the wall" (or sometimes "handwriting on the wall"), an idiom, is a portent of doom or misfortune. It originates in the Biblical book of Daniel—where supernatural writing foretells the demise of the Babylonian Empire. The phrase is widely used in language and literature.
There's numerous accounts in the Bible where Jehovah's prophets did make mistakes. Unless Jehovah transmits a direct explanation for every Bible matter it is not possible, to be infallible when seeking Bible truth. Using accuracy and perfection as a means to measure “true” and “false” prophets, what person or organization is a true prophet and is closer to the truth than Jehovah's Witnesses? -
palmtree67
There's numerous accounts in the Bible where Jehovah's prophets did make mistakes.
And how did Jehovah react to that??
What person or organization is a true prophet and is closer to the truth than Jehovah's Witnesses?
Why does there have to be one??
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not a captive
When there is no direct information, why don't individuals do as the apostle Paul at 1 Cor.7:25?
He knew he didn't have permission to speak for God: "Now concerning virgins I have no command from the Lord, but I give my opinion..." Paul didn't make himself a Master of anyone's faith by overstepping the boundary of his personal opinion into making human opinion s abinding teaching.
So why do these different religions do it--including the WTS?
