by alice.in.wonderland 116 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Alice lets try and have a 'real' conversation..... not all these silly attention grabbing threads.
Since you cannot tell me what is the WTS's "Truth" lets delve into your truths....... why aren't you attending meetings, how long and do you plan to return?
"Mary's cartoons satirize the teachings and activities of Pastor Russell, an individual (designated therein as a "false prophet")."
A false prophet is not necessarily someone who communicates a scriptural inaccuracy or makes a prediction about a future event that fails based on an honest effort to interpret God's Word. While under the direction of God's Spirit, none of Jehovah's Witnesses, the Governing Body included receive any divine revelations that explain Bible matters. They clearly state this:
re chap. 2 p. 9 The Grand Theme of the Bible
Interpreting the Scriptures: The mysteries locked up in the book of Revelation have for long baffled sincere students of the Bible. In God’s due time, those secrets had to be unlocked, but how, when, and to whom? Only God’s spirit could make known the meaning as the appointed time drew near. (Revelation 1:3) Those sacred secrets would be revealed to God’s zealous slaves on earth so that they would be strengthened to make known his judgments. (Matthew 13:10, 11) It is not claimed that the explanations in this publication are infallible. Like Joseph of old, we say: “Do not interpretations belong to God?” (Genesis 40:8) At the same time, however, we firmly believe that the explanations set forth herein harmonize with the Bible in its entirety, showing how remarkably divine prophecy has been fulfilled in the world events of our catastrophic times.
A false prophet is revealed by his actions as an insincere truth seeker:
http://nlt.scripturetext.com/matthew/7.htm
The Tree and Its Fruit
“Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.
That is why people like Mary use empty headed and false accusations about Charles Russell to further a warped agenda.
http://onlytruegod.org/jwstrs/yb75_70-1.htm
Foes of C. T. Russell used not only his domestic affairs but other "weapons" against him. For instance, his enemies have charged that he sold a great quantity of ordinary wheat seed under the name of "Miracle Wheat" at one dollar per pound, or sixty dollars per bushel. They have held that from this Russell realized an enormous personal profit. However, these charges are absolutely false. What are the facts?
In 1904 Mr. K. B. Stoner noticed an unusual plant growing in his garden in Fincastle, Virginia. It turned out to be wheat of an uncommon kind. The plant had 142 stalks and each bore a head of fully matured wheat. In 1906 he named it "Miracle Wheat." Eventually others obtained and grew it, enjoying extraordinary yields. In fact, Miracle Wheat won prizes at several fairs. C. T. Russell was very interested in anything related to the Biblical predictions that "the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose" and "the earth shall yield her increase." (Isa. 35:1; Ezek. 34:27, AV) On November 23, 1907, H. A. Miller, Assistant Agriculturalist of the United States Government, filed in the Department of Agriculture a report commending this wheat grown by Mr. Stoner. Throughout the country the public press took note of the report. C. T. Russell’s attention was drawn to it, and so in Zion’s Watch Tower of March 15, 1908, on page 86, he published some press comments and extracts from the government report. Then, in conclusion, he commented: "If this account be but one-half true it testifies afresh to God’s ability to provide things needful for the ‘times of restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all the holy prophets since the world began.’—Acts 3:19-21."
Mr. Stoner was not a Bible Student or an associate of C. T. Russell, and neither were various other persons who experimented with Miracle Wheat. In 1911, however, Watch Tower readers J. A. Bohnet of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and Samuel J. Fleming of Wabash, Indiana, presented to the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society the aggregate of about thirty bushels of this wheat, proposing that it be sold for one dollar per pound and that all the proceeds be received by the Society as a donation from them, to be used in its religious work. The wheat was received and sent out by the Society and the gross receipts from it amounted to about $1,800. Russell himself did not get a penny of this money. He merely published a statement in The Watch Tower to the effect that the wheat had been contributed and could be obtained for a dollar a pound. The Society itself made no claim for the wheat on its own knowledge and the money received went as a donation into Christian missionary work. When others criticized this sale, all who had contributed were informed that if they were dissatisfied their money would be returned. In fact, the identical money received for the wheat was held for a year for that purpose. But not one person asked for a refund. The conduct of Brother Russell and the Society in connection with Miracle Wheat was completely open and aboveboard.
Because Charles Taze Russell taught the truth from God’s Word, he was hated and maligned, often by the religious clergy. But then, Christians of modern times expect such treatment, for Jesus and his apostles were dealt with similarly by religious opposers.—Luke 7:34.
Alice..
You compared posters on JWN to Nazi`s..
Then you complain about hateful information?..
I've many times seen hateful information venerated toward Jehovah's Witnesses
to the extent that if the powers that be didn't protect people from criminal persecution, there could be problems.
That's how I perceive it. If people don't feel that way, good.
No one is after Jehovah`s Witness`s,your out of your mind..
It's not an attitude I enjoy being exposed to.
So far you`ve left JWN twice and come back twice..
(Actually you never left,you just raised everyones hopes..)
LOL!!..
Alice,
I think that early on C.T. Russell was a sincere student of the Bible. And the WT archives have quotes from him saying that he didn't invent some of the teachings that are assumed to be his...The teachings about hell are from either George Storrs or Henry Grew. He was just trying to see what the Bible said for himself.
He did use information from others. And I just want the same opportunity to seek for myself.
Do the scriptures authorize the FDS to do spiritual food distribution? It may be. But the were not commissionedto lord it over others by making a new, true religion. Luke 12 and Matt.24 talk about this. Jesus warned that if the slave began to beat his fellow slaves he would be punished with the utmost severity.
Now, I have a question.
If some brute of a co-worker is beating you and your boss shows up, who do you think he needs to ask if you are Okay? Should your boss ask the guy whose beating you or should he ask you? The guy beating you might just say he's keeping you in line. But it's you who will know he's lying, it's who will know you are being beaten.
They are not offering spiritual food as free choice now, Alice. If they were in the beginning as Bible Students, remember it was free choice. But what they are doing now is just plain brutal.
Alice......
Be real
Stop 'stiring the pot' and crying 'persecution, persecution'....... you don't even attend, you are an 'inactive' JW.
Besides we really don't have much left of Russell anyways..... Rutherford started drop-kicking Chucky to the curb around 1927.
I think Alice is a real person not a troll. I can understand where she is coming from a bit. She is a little knocked back by the intense reviling of the organization. Alice this is directed by most on this board at the organization not it's people. The reason for this is that only at place like here can people discuss the merits or shortcomings of the WTBS with ALL the information. I am sure you can agree with all of us what would happen if you went to the Kingdom Hall and wanted to honestly discuss doctrine or the flip-flopping policies of the past.
I remeber when I first started posting here (as Brocephus) there was a lady that wanted to sue the WTBS. There were many a heated debate as I often said no one is holding anyone there by force. The debate was good because it did force me to look at things. Where I settled was if grown adults want to subject themselves to the whims and rules of the JW's fine. If they want to raise their children with those morals, ok. But children minors should not be subject to Judicial Committees and shunning as I feel based on my personal experience that is child abuse and hurtful to both the individual and the organization
Please remember Alice is a real person. I am sure many like me would like to hear what you think about the organization or your experience. Why are you here?
P.S. I have received a picture and Alice is hawt. , I tried to send you back mine but your email had me blocked. PM me if you wish, Alice.
While under the direction of God's Spirit, none of Jehovah's Witnesses, the Governing Body included receive any divine revelations that explain Bible matters.
So.. they are "directed under his spirit"... but not receiving any special direction from him.
Makes a whole lot of sense.
- Lime
I want her to start talking too.....
I think she needs socialization and isn't getting it at home!
Alice, I know you don't trust us......but believe it or not this forum has acted like a safety net to many!
You are falling, so lets cushion your landing some......
The only reason you are getting snippy remarks is because you are baiting them......you are seeking persecution.
We need to get you past this, it is unhealthy and created to keep you from making connections past your congregation. Since you are not associating with your congregation take some of these posters up on their offers to talk and listen! What is the worse that can happen? You get some stuff off your chest, learn a bit about the Org........ or worse.....make real friends.
A false prophet is not necessarily someone who communicates a scriptural inaccuracy or makes a prediction about a future event that fails
Please explain why the Watchtower predictions should not be considered false prophecy. They have prophesied the date of armageddon many times; it did not come to pass in 1914, nor in 1925, nor 1975. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did not return to take up residence at Beth-Sarim. According to Deuteronomy 18:
[20] But the prophet who presumes to say something in my name which I have not commanded him to say, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die."
[21] 'You may be privately wondering, "How are we to tell that a prophecy does not come from Yahweh?"
[22] When a prophet speaks in the name of Yahweh and the thing does not happen and the word is not fulfilled, then it has not been said by Yahweh. The prophet has spoken presumptuously. You have nothing to fear from him.'
"Please explain why the Watchtower predictions should not be considered false prophecy. They have prophesied the date of armageddon many times; it did not come to pass in 1914, nor in 1925, nor 1975. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did not return to take up residence at Beth-Sarim. According to Deuteronomy 18:"
[20] But the prophet who presumes to say something in my name which I have not commanded him to say, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die."
Here, you're quoting from Deuteronomy 18:20. The Mosaic Law was replaced with the New Covenant.
it-1 p. 524 Covenant
New Covenant. Jehovah foretold the new covenant by the prophet Jeremiah in the seventh century B.C.E., stating that it would not be like the Law covenant, which Israel broke. (Jer 31:31-34) On the night before his death, Nisan 14, 33 C.E., when he established the celebration of the Lord’s Evening Meal, Jesus Christ announced the new covenant, to be validated by his sacrifice. (Lu 22:20) On the 50th day from his resurrection and 10 days after he had ascended to his Father, he poured out the holy spirit, which he had received from Jehovah, on his disciples gathered in an upper room in Jerusalem.—Ac 2:1-4, 17, 33; 2Co 3:6, 8, 9; Heb 2:3, 4.
You can do your own research. Under the New Covenant, no one was to die for spiritual transgressions, whether it involved masquerading as a divine prophet or practicing witchcraft.
[21] 'You may be privately wondering, "How are we to tell that a prophecy does not come from Yahweh?"
[22] When a prophet speaks in the name of Yahweh and the thing does not happen and the word is not fulfilled, then it has not been said by Yahweh. The prophet has spoken presumptuously. You have nothing to fear from him.'
And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. Deuteronomy 18:21-22
Again, this is directed at ancient Israel when God had direct dealings with his nation as a people. The Old Testament has recorded in its pages, supernatural events visible to all present at the occasion. God's channel of communication was much more explicit and direct as the Bible cannon was not completed when ancient Israel was God's chosen people.
There's nothing that should suggest that any imperfect human or group of humans in the last days should be infallible (immune from liability to error or failure) in matters of interpretation or prophecy. This is actually a position held by Christendom's Churches:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility
Papal infallibility
Papal infallibility is the dogma in Roman Catholic theology that, by action of the Holy Spirit, the Pope is preserved from even the possibility of error when he solemnly declares or promulgates to the universal Church a dogmatic teaching on faith or morals as being contained in divine revelation, or at least being intimately connected to divine revelation. It is also taught that the Holy Spirit works in the body of the Church, as sensus fidelium, to ensure that dogmatic teachings proclaimed to be infallible will be received by all Catholics. This dogma, however, does not state either that the Pope cannot sin in his own personal life or that he is necessarily free of error, even when speaking in his official capacity, outside the specific contexts in which the dogma applies.
