Marriage was invented by men to control women. It is obsolete and costly especially if it falls apart. Why gays want to go through all that is beyond me. However a civil union is wise for spousal benefits. BTW, does enjoying watching women do the dirty make me gay? Hope not.
For those against gay marriage
by lola28 227 Replies latest members adult
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BenV
Junction-guy wrote:
I am not gay and never will be. I came close, but snapped out of it. I almost became brainwashed twice--never again !!!
You were almost brainwashed ... not once ... but twice! Better be careful JG -- you know what they say: Third time's a charm!
Really, JG, I am so HAPPY you're not gay! In fact I'm kneeling at my sacred gay altar, tossin' some glitter to the heavens, and thankin' them 'mo gods that you is a bona-fide, no-kiddin', better-believe-it, no-question-about-it hetero!
Ben (doin' the gay-sway)
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cognizant dissident
I was under the assumption here in JWD that we were ALL a bit more tolerant of one another as opposed to the narrow minded BASTARDS that we at one time buckled beneath.
Yeah, you'd think that would be the case wouldn't you? Unfortunately, you would be sadly mistaken!
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freydi
"Get rid of integrity and the rest is easy." - JR Ewing
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scotsman
Wow, this thread had no responses when I looked last night... somethings never change. Same discussion, just different contributors - which in itself is a good sign. If people are simplistic enough to oppose gay marriage because the Bible tells them so, fair enough, I wont bother discussing it with them as they're usually intransient. Presumably blackpearl and freydi are against abortion too.
junctionguy, I had hoped some of the advice offered the other day had sunk in, I notice even Amanda's unimpressed by your bitterness. Staying away from JWD might really be best for you.
gay marriage - best case scenario for me would be for a state recognised civil partnership for everyone and then leave it up to each religious group as to who can "marry" in the church. Having said that, a lot of the civil partners here do refer to themselves as married and the sky still hasn't fallen down.
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funkyderek
freydi:
All this has to do with whether or not consenting adults are involved. I don't find the notion of consenting adult behavior justified in Scripture. But of course if you want to get rid of Scripture then, I guess anything goes, right, whatever the particular activity whether it's stamp collecting or pedophilia. Any pedo's out there who would like to come out of the closet and defend your actions?
Wow! Sometimes it's easy for someone living in the Western world to forget that this sort of intensely small-minded religious bigotry is not limited to the most backward areas of the Middle East but can be found alive and well in an ostensibly civilised country. It's hard for enlightened people to get their heads around the idea that someone can be vehemently opposed to something, not because it hurts anybody or violates anybody's rights, or has any negative consequences whatsoever, but rather, because a tribe of Bronze Age nomads also vehemently opposed it. But this is genuinely how freydi thinks. He is unable to make moral judgements himself. He really doesn't understand the principle of consent which is why he sees no moral difference between homosexuality and paedophilia. Of course, the fact that the latter is not only not condemned, but actually endorsed by the books he considers to be written by his favoured deity is worrying, as lacking the sense of morality that more developed people have, freydi and those like him may not see the abuse of children as wrong, and may act accordingly.
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Junction-Guy
Well I am against gay marriage plain and simple, but I am moving on from this topic as it is not productive, besides the fact that I don't even live in California. I live in Tennessee and I had my say at the polls already. I made my voice known, along with the majority of other Tenneseans. On to other thing now and reclaiming my life.
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BurnTheShips
As a libertarian I believe that if same sex individuals want to "marry" each other, it is their business and not mine. As for government based benefits, the government has no business being in the marriage business. From a purely legal standpoint, marriage is a contract between individuals. Let individuals contract with who they wish how they wish and when they wish. End state based preferential treatment for certain kinds of contracts. It is statist social engineering, and I reject this categorically.
That said!
As a Christian I believe "gay marriage" falls short of the moral standards. "Gay marriage" is an oxymoron. It's a redefinition. Marriage has always meant heterosexual marriage. However, as I noted above, if some individuals want to contract with other same sex individuals, the law has got nothing to do with it beyond enforcing the contract's terms.
BTS
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VoidEater
Since folks better than I have already responded to most of the new issues, I am only left to comment on BTS' post - which, incidentally, makes the important bottom line distinction between church and state, thus freeing Buddhists, Atheists, and certain liberal Christians from the choke-hold of fundamentalism...
So, on to "Marriage has always meant heterosexual marriage."
Not exactly.
Although state-recognized same-sex marriage is a relatively new phenomenon in Western society, there is a long history of same-sex unions around the world. Various types of same-sex unions have existed, ranging from informal, unsanctioned relationships to highly ritualized unions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unionsBoswell was the author of the ground-breaking and controversial book Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality (1980), which, according to Chauncey et al (1989), "offered a revolutionary interpretation of the Western tradition, arguing that the Roman Catholic Church had not condemned gay people throughout its history, but rather, at least until the twelfth century, had alternately evinced no special concern about homosexuality or actually celebrated love between men."
He is known primarily, however, as author of The Marriage of Likeness: Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe (New York: Villard, 1994), in which he argues that the adelphopoiia liturgy was evidence that attitude of the Christian church towards homosexuality has changed over time, and that early Christiansdid on occasion accept same-sex relationships.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Boswell_%28historian%29Despite criticism of Boswell's philosophical exposition, his research appears solid.
An anthropologist friend pointed out this Egyptian tomb:
"Their arms entwined, their torsos and noses touching[, these two men] Niankhkhnum and Khnumhotep were painted together for eternity in an embrace usually associated with heterosexual couples of the 5th dynasty...
"One of the largest and most beautiful of all the tombs in the necropolis at Saqqara, south of Cairo, the two men's final resting place was discovered in 1964. The archaeologist Ahmed Moussa made the rare find of two men of equal status buried together in a tomb decorated with images of them holding hands or locked nose to nose...
"The official view by one of the world's most eminent Egyptologists, Zahi Hawass, is that they were brothers, perhaps even conjoined twins..."
Yet the evidence is also suggestive of an explicit and sanctioned homosexual relationship.
The comment that marriage has "always" been about heterosexual relationships is common, but not reflective of an examination of history outside of a narrow sampling. Right or wrong, homosexual relationships with commemmorative rituals abound.
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momzcrazy
"Their arms entwined, their torsos and noses touching[, these two men] Niankhkhnum and Khnumhotep were painted together for eternity in an embrace usually associated with heterosexual couples of the 5th dynasty...
"One of the largest and most beautiful of all the tombs in the necropolis at Saqqara, south of Cairo, the two men's final resting place was discovered in 1964. The archaeologist Ahmed Moussa made the rare find of two men of equal status buried together in a tomb decorated with images of them holding hands or locked nose to nose...
How beautiful! "Painted together for eternity in an embrace." That made me cry.