by thirdwitness 597 Replies latest watchtower scandals
3W:
This letter from the WTS written to one brother really hits the nail squarely on the head.
If this truly is a WT letter, it raises the question of how you obtained it.
I notice you say it was addressed to "one brother" - is that you perhaps?
Or were you simply reading a copy of a letter kept in Service Department files?
Your illustration has no resemblance to what happened in this case. To begin with, food and humanitarian aid would not be tied to "support of the UN." The WT Society agreed to aid the UN's publicity department to help "mobilize public support of the UN." There was no dire need for them to do this. I think it was a good move but it certainly contradicted some basic principles of Jehovah's Witness' teaching.
Let's recap:
1) Your website falsely states that the NGO criteria of association has changed over the years.
2) Your website omits the most damning proof about requirements to "support the UN" (page 7 of the 1994 brochure and the 1992 press releases) which show that the requirements basically stayed the same over this period.
3) It's pretty clear Watchtower representatives attended the NGO conferences. Are you really saying they had no idea what sort of group they were involved with?
4) Since you cannot substantiate your research you bear false witness against Mr Paul Hoeffel of the DPI and you've developed one of the most bizarre conspiracy theories I've ever seen claiming that he is trying to hide some "mistakes" in his letter on the UN site. You owe him a big apology. Do you think that your personal attack of Mr Hoeffel is a good witness to your religion?
5) You falsely state that the reason the WT quit its membership was due to a notification it received about the changed status. You omit the fact that the reason it quit was due to the exposure this was receiving here on JWD. I remember this as it happened back in 2001.
Your website needs a major overhaul.
While the article definitely informs us about the UN, it certainly does not support or promote it as a viable world government. The only thing it seems to be promoting is Jehovah's Witnesses' free Bible study program. Oh, but yes, it certainly does point to a world government as the solution to Human Rights violations — but that government is God's Kingdom, not the United Nations in New York. As the Watchtower Society have quoted many times in relation to the efforts of human governments
The Watchtower Society was speaking with a forked tongue on this one. It had to produce some writing to fulfill it's associate status, which it did. Of course, there is no way it would state the UN was the government the world needed. But, did any of these articles state:
1) That the UN was the image of the wild beast of Revelation?
2) That the UN would destroy all religions?
That would not have been a wise thing for them to sumit to the DPI/UN, would it?
So if it is not wrong to be a UN-NGO, why did the Watchtower Corp get out once Guradian published the fact that Watchtower belonged and it was further exposed on this discussion board?
Cabasilas, your points are well thought out. I almost hate to add anything more to the discussion.
Thanks for the kind words, jayhawk1.
Point of fact: the Guardian article appeared after the Watchtower Society requested disassociation from the DPI/UN. If one reads the thread I referred to earlier from 2001 you can see the build up of phone calls to the UN which led to the WT quitting their associated status. It was after this that the Guardian got involved.
Cabasilas
Thanks for the clear-up. It was so long ago that I can't remember which happened first. I remember reading the Guradian website and then I looked here and found us talking about it. Or was it the other way around? Who cares...? Point is, you made precise points that is impossible to get around. That is unless you actually believe the garbage Thirdwitness is spewing forth at this point. Thirdwitness' position is without foundation. Point-in-fact that the Watchtower makes no comment on the subject. Clearly it's an attempt to put it all behind them. Fortunately for Watchtower, their followers have a short memory and are used to doctrine changes.
For us in the real world, we know better. Watchtower has said for decades to stay away from the UN and it's programs. They have said constantly that the UN is the Wild Beast in Revelation. They constantly tell their followers that the UN will turn on religion that belongs to the UN. They willingly chose to associate with the UN as an NGO. They have stated in their literature to never have a share in world politics. They never once discussed with their followers their status in joining the UN, even if it was only for a library card. This omission alone shows a guilty conscience. Need I go on.
Several of us have made excellent points. Meanwhile we get the same recycled stuff found on Thirdwitness' site. Stuff that if you look at it long enough you can see each and every flaw in. The only reason I continue to post to this thread is because I get a kick out of watching Thirdwitness stumble through grasping for anything that make this person think he is right. It is remarkable, yet sad, to see it.
It in a way reminds me of a train wreck. I am never happy to see it happen, but I am always amazed at the power and force of the destruction.
thirdwitness,
thirdwitness: Auldsoul will you please briefly ask the questions that you feel I haven't answered and I will do so.
I have briefly asked you questions repeatedly, so I won't briefly ask them again. I will link you to the most recent set of six brief questions of mine you haven't answered. You have already answered yes to #4 on another thread, so I will let that one stand as answered.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/117658/2112161/post.ashx#2112161
Your current contention that voluntary association (joining) of secular organizations that are under judgment by God is acceptable directly contradicts the OM and OD book.
thirdwitness: So rather than make a judgement based on what you think is right or not and condemn the WTS would it not be better to let Jehovah be the judge and remain loyal to Jehovah and His people.
If it is a conscience matter that depends on the circumstances then why have people been announced as disassociated for joining secular organizations which are under judgment by God? I am not making the judgment of whether it is right or not. I am using their own published and exacted judgment to say that according to them it is an abandonment of the Christian faith even if the organization is secular and is not religious.
I really don't think you can excuse the top of the earthly organizational hierarchy for holding itself to a lesser standard than that to which it holds everyone else. (Romans 2:1, 2) Paul says doing that is "inexcusable."
I am still waiting for your answers to my six question from that link. Here's how easy it can be:
(1) Yes.
(2) Yes.
(3) Yes.
(4) Yes. (<--- this is the one you already said yes to)
(5) Disapproved.
(6) Yes.
That is exactly how easy it could be. I can't wait to see how you try to complicate the process.
AuldSoul
lol...
Maybe he even gave examples of persons who seemed to have been treated unjustly.
They just cannot bring themselves to admit that injustices pepper their congregations like maggots on rotting flesh. They know it happens, but how does one spin it so that gate-posts like ThirdWitness are left with the feeling that perhaps he has a wrong viewpoint of the matter? That is the problem.
Not so difficult however, for instructions, please see quoted statement above.
HS
3rd Witness..Do you really think this about splitting hairs Idiot?..There are no hairs to split..WBTS should have had nothing to do with the United Nations..There aren`t any waters to muddy..WBTS should have had nothing to do with the United Nations..What don`t you get TROLL??!!..The organization that runs your religion is a Whore..You do nothing to clean it up..You protect it..And our familys in the Jehovah`s Witness`s suffer for it..ScumBag!!...OUTLAW
3W, SHOULD TRUE CHRISTIANS BE SEEN TO ASSOCIATE WITH THE BEAST THAT IS,WAS, AND IS YET TO COME?
ON A SAPARETE(SP?)MATTER, ARE YOU ACCUSING MR HOEFFEL OF BEING A LIAR, IF SO WOULD YOU WIN IN A LIBEL ACTION?
